MEP002A Starter Doesn't Always Disengage

[SandtownRanch]

Took a MEP002A with only 6.9 hours on it in on a trade. They said it had been sitting awhile, so did all the routine maintenance and it started easy and ran fine. Killed it, checked it out, started it again, run it a bit, did some quick load test and everything seemed good. Killed it, looked it over again, then started it a 3rd time which started fine but this time seemed louder after a bit. Killed it again, looked it over couldn't find the source. Tried to start it again and the starter wouldn't even crank. Took it off and the starter is burnt up, looks like it never disengaged and burnt up the starter. Couldn't find anything else wrong so assumed the starter went back. So ordered one online and they sent a type II, a smaller starter with not as many post on the solenoid and instead of a lever sticking out the action is encased. The original was a type I according to the manual.

Anyway put it on, it started, ran fine the first time, starter stayed cool. Killed it, looked it over, restarted it, and starter started getting warm, REALLY warm, so killed it. Looks like it again stayed engaged. But didn't happen the first start.

Anyone have any ideas why the starter would stay engaged but only some of the time?


Also, 2nd question: The wiring was a bit different between the type I and type II, we hooked it up according to the manual for a type II but there was 1 extra wire not shown in the manual and we put it where we thought it went based on my dads 40+ years experiance as a Master Mechanic in the Army before he retired and he admits its been awhile but said he felt sure it went under the + side lug on the solenoid so that's where we put it. We don't think the extra wire is what is causing the starter to remain engaged SOME of the time though (if it was you'd think it'd stay engaged all of the time). So in addition to my question, does anyone happen to have a close up picture of how the wires are connected on a type II starter?

 

[Guyfang]

Look at, test and adjust, the S7 starter lockout switch. The procedures are in the TM, and you and your Father seem to know how to use one. That is not always the case. Go to the TM5-6115-584-12, PDF reader page# 132. Bottom of the right side of the page is where you need to start reading. Simple really. Just hope its out of adjustment, not broke. That is normally the problem.

BUT, Read this P.S. Mag article, FIRST. Do the check. This has been around a million years, and still it crops up from time to time. If this is the problem, its much easier to do then check the S7.

What wire number was on the wire you are asking about? Can you trace it back?

 

[SandtownRanch]

Thanks, and no we can't read the wire numbers, my dad wanted to do that but back when it was painted camo they got over spray over the wires. My dad even tried cleaning some of the wire off but never could get a readable number.


Will check both of those things in that order. Dad already had mentioned thinking there was something like that lockout switch but wasn't sure on this specific model. He was in from 1962-2001, started out as a tank mechanic, then we moved on base in '72 and worked from 1973-2000 in an OMS shop and also went to Desert Storm, that little page you posted brought up memories, we lived on base and he used to bring those little PM mags home all the time when I was a kid plus I'd drive my go-kart (and later motorcycles, dune buggies and Jeeps) down to his shop at lunch during the summers have have lunch with him and they'd be strewn around the break room. He said sadly he has worked on these but they aren't his expertise as their shop had an electronics specialist, his best friend, who'd usually handle the generators and he said if he could still call him he'd probably have been able to tell us in 5 mins exactly what was going on and how to fix it but sadly he passed a couple of years ago. I served from 1989 to 2010 but was a special investigator. I'm a good general mechanic, specifically I build Jeeps and other offroad vehicles as well as serious rock-crawlers, rock-bouncers and desert-runners of all levels from beginner to extreme but this thing has a lot of closely bundled together wires and all the same color! Add a little over-spray and you can't hardly trace anything

 

[Guyfang]

How many wires go to your starter? There should only be 6.

 

[SandtownRanch]

We just tried to do the TM thing, found block TB4 and wire 3 but there are 2 wires on that terminal and the PM page says move the wire P59E16 only neither of the wires have that number, one is P59C16 and the other is P59D16. One of them goes down to the K3 relay on the upper left terminal, I can't tell where the other one goes.

 

[Guyfang]

Look at TB4 terminals 12, 13 and 14 and see if wire P59E is Already there. You do not have to write the last two numbers of a wire. The last two numbers tell you the size of the wire.

 

[SandtownRanch]

Hey we figured it out, my dad called back (he lives like 15 mins up the road at the other end of the ranch) and said he got to thinking, check the wire on the OTHER side of the #3 terminal, sometimes the picture shows it on one side but it could be on the other and that turned out to be the correct wire. Changed it and we have now ran it about 45 minutes with a couple of stops and starts thrown in and it's running perfect now. My dad said one of the smoothest running ones he's ever seen and no smoking at all. He said probably why it had such low hours, it had that wire in the wrong place causing the starters to burn out and they had others to use so some government employee just didn't bother with it and left it in storage.

We also found another starter diagram that verified that we had put the extra wire in the correct place (actually it wouldn't have started with it anywhere else anyway and the size of the lug was also a hint).


Thanks for all the help guys. We load tested it and everything and it's putting out just what it should in every mode.

 

[SandtownRanch]

Oh, one other question, any idea what one of these with 7.8 hours and the Onan-Cummins power plant would be worth?

As I said I took this in on partial trade for one of my Jeeps and don't need it. I thought about keeping it but we have several 6000, 8000 and 10000 watt portable generators and I moved into my families historical home after taking an early out (haha, if 21 years counts as "early") and we're remodeling it and plan on getting a Genrac 7k - 11k model, even already had the pad for it poured when they did the new garage and this thing is too large, not to mention more complicated from a maintenance standpoint.

 

[Guyfang]

Well, you two should go into the biz! Way too many gen sets don't work, not enough time to work on them all.

Oh, did you check the diode?

No idea what its worth. Too many other guys in the forum can tell you. Living in Germany keeps me kinda out of the price thing. I like to fix them, but worth? No idea.

21 years is sometimes enough. I got out with a bit over 20. Still miss it, and that was 27 years ago.

Glad you got her running.

 

[Ray70]

You're talking about an 002A with 7.8 hours on it? It's worth whatever you can get someone to pay for it!
It depends a lot on your area, the time of year ( they fetch more during a wide scale outage ) and the supply of machines in your area.
In general, where I am located I have sold many real nice 002a's some with as little as 5 hours, fully serviced and tested and get between $1700 and $2300
These prices may be a tad low, but I sell them at what I feel is a fair price, not looking to get rich doing it, just make some spare money.

 

[SandtownRanch]

You're talking about an 002A with 7.8 hours on it? It's worth whatever you can get someone to pay for it!
It depends a lot on your area, the time of year ( they fetch more during a wide scale outage ) and the supply of machines in your area.
In general, where I am located I have sold many real nice 002a's some with as little as 5 hours, fully serviced and tested and get between $1700 and $2300
These prices may be a tad low, but I sell them at what I feel is a fair price, not looking to get rich doing it, just make some spare money.

Well, he said even higher hour models was worth $2000 which would be right in the middle of your range. It was one of those trades where I figured even if he was inflating it a bit I wouldn't get hurt, pretty much anything over $1500 and I'd be doing OK and if I actually got close to $2000 I'd come out good. Like you I believe in fair prices, it was one of those out of the blue things, he's been bugging me for this classic Jeep for awhile and then one night said he'd give me this as well (he was short on the cash offer side). I knew he'd had this in the corner of his garage under a cover for a couple of years without ever even touching it. I think he bought it with big plans of buying the kit to hook it up where it would start automatically if the power went out but he's not a mechanic in any way and so never touched it, he'd bought it direct from the Army surplus sale, a green (not the tan) model. It was in the original trailer with a cover when he bought it but he wanted to keep the trailer so took it out and put it in the corner of his garage under a cover and just left it. He even ordered a new rectifier kit for it last year because some neighbor told him that's what caused the starter to burn out and then called me asking me to install it but I told him I didn't think that was it (and I was right) but it was too late to return it so it even comes with a brand new rectifier kit still in the box which I think ran him several hundred.