MEP003A Starts, but then stops either when starter released or after about 20 minutes running

[SteveH]

I think I’m having the same issues , had mine running and powering my house after the storm went through ran it from about 8 pm to 10am with no problem. Shut it down when we went to work when we returned started it up ( 3pm ) ran for about an hour and it shut down. Went to investigate braker was still engaged turned breaker off attempted to start it, started right up but when I released the starter switch it shut down! I open up the control panel to make sure there where no issues I pulled the emergency stop button and reset it closed the compartment and restarted it and it worked normally! ???

when you say your shatter box was full of debris you taking about the open compartment or inside the shutters? My unit has the ASK.

In side the shutters, surrounding the exhaust manifolds, here's the view that was revealed when I unbolted the shutter box....

 

[SteveH]

Great - thanks.

Found the root cause of my problems - the shutter box was FULL of insulation, acorns nuts and mouse droppings. Cleared it out, checked the vents are opening and put all the ductwork back. I HATE mice....

As suggested, I'm now running with the 24v charger plugged into the convenience outlet. I was surprised that the voltmeter on the panel seems to be reading the voltage over the battery (not the voltage from the regulator). I'm going to buy one of Jims regulators and fit it though.

Now keeping my fingers crossed it will keep running - it looks like we may be without power for several days.

A big thanks to everyone who made suggestions, and the offers of help via PM. My wife was amazed at the community spirit/support....


-Steve

Update to my own message above:

I've been running for just over two days like this - DC Regulator Fuse removed (F1 on the schematic), and battery charger (a Guest 12v 2 Bank https://www.batterystuff.com/battery-chargers/12-volt/marine-chargers/GU2611A.html). This is plugged into the convenience outlet, and appears to be working (it is normally used to keep the batteries topped off when not running) - but I now have dead batteries.

As commented above, I noticed that the panel volt meter seemed to be be reading the battery voltage when I started the unit with the fuse removed, and was originally high in the green. Over the last two days, the voltage has been dropping steadily, and now is just in the red. Initially the battery charger LEDs indicated charging, then charged (everything looked good), and then moved into some kind of error state (both red & green LED's flashing) this evening. Batteries are pretty much dead - they won't crank the unit over after I stopped it this evening, and only TOTAL about 15v when the unit is running and charger disconnected.

I have just managed to jump start it, and it's running well (even with the jumping batteries removed) - but with the DC volt meter in the red, very slightly higher with charger attached. I'm very concerned that it's going to die - I'm assuming that at some point there won't be enough current to hold the stop solenoid in. I assume that it, and the aux fuel pump are the main consumers of DC current when the unit is running (?)

I'm very surprised this is happening - the charger is connected, and I think it's good. I am wondering if it somehow 'confused' in terms of battery conditioning because there is current being drawn - or even if the blown regulator has some effect, even with the fuse F1 removed (looking at the schematic it's not clear what the fuse does - both ends are connected to the regulator). It might also be that the short period of unregulated 33v somehow cooked the batteries. However, I can't really investigate this while I need the unit running.

Looks like we may not get power back for four more days (current prediction). I may buy two batteries as insurance tomorrow, and keep them charged (externally) to swap in. The originals are about 8 years old, though they seemed good - but I don't think I can run the unit without batteries AND the F1 fuse removed... (new regulator on the way, but probably 4 or 5 days out...about when we're scheduled to get power back....)

Apologies for the long description - I wonder, has anyone seen anything similar?

-Steve

 

[Davygray]

In side the shutters, surrounding the exhaust manifolds, here's the view that was revealed when I unbolted the shutter box....

View attachment 808413

Wow! Does yours have the ASK? Mine does

 

[Davygray]

Update to my own message above:

I've been running for just over two days like this - DC Regulator Fuse removed (F1 on the schematic), and battery charger (a Guest 12v 2 Bank https://www.batterystuff.com/battery-chargers/12-volt/marine-chargers/GU2611A.html). This is plugged into the convenience outlet, and appears to be working (it is normally used to keep the batteries topped off when not running) - but I now have dead batteries.

As commented above, I noticed that the panel volt meter seemed to be be reading the battery voltage when I started the unit with the fuse removed, and was originally high in the green. Over the last two days, the voltage has been dropping steadily, and now is just in the red. Initially the battery charger LEDs indicated charging, then charged (everything looked good), and then moved into some kind of error state (both red & green LED's flashing) this evening. Batteries are pretty much dead - they won't crank the unit over after I stopped it this evening, and only TOTAL about 15v when the unit is running and charger disconnected.

I have just managed to jump start it, and it's running well (even with the jumping batteries removed) - but with the DC volt meter in the red, very slightly higher with charger attached. I'm very concerned that it's going to die - I'm assuming that at some point there won't be enough current to hold the stop solenoid in. I assume that it, and the aux fuel pump are the main consumers of DC current when the unit is running (?)

I'm very surprised this is happening - the charger is connected, and I think it's good. I am wondering if it somehow 'confused' in terms of battery conditioning because there is current being drawn - or even if the blown regulator has some effect, even with the fuse F1 removed (looking at the schematic it's not clear what the fuse does - both ends are connected to the regulator). It might also be that the short period of unregulated 33v somehow cooked the batteries. However, I can't really investigate this while I need the unit running.

Looks like we may not get power back for four more days (current prediction). I may buy two batteries as insurance tomorrow, and keep them charged (externally) to swap in. The originals are about 8 years old, though they seemed good - but I don't think I can run the unit without batteries AND the F1 fuse removed... (new regulator on the way, but probably 4 or 5 days out...about when we're scheduled to get power back....)

Apologies for the long description - I wonder, has anyone seen anything similar?

-Steve

Hmm mine was over changing my new batteries 30 plus volts so to prevent over charging I disconnected the main positive cable! Wounded if this caused it to shut down? I’ve also orders a new VR.

 

[Chainbreaker]

...I don't think I can run the unit without batteries AND the F1 fuse removed... (new regulator on the way, but probably 4 or 5 days out...about when we're scheduled to get power back....)

The reason you don't want to run without batteries is discussed in this thread. In particular, posts # 6, #8 & #27.

 

[Chainbreaker]

...I may buy two batteries as insurance tomorrow, and keep them charged (externally) to swap in. The originals are about 8 years old, though they seemed good - but I don't think I can run the unit without batteries AND the F1 fuse removed... (new regulator on the way, but probably 4 or 5 days out...about when we're scheduled to get power back....)

With your batteries being 8 yrs old and with being subjected to charging issues I think your strategy of buying 2 "new matched batteries" and installing them fully charged and then maintaining them with your external charger plugged in to convenience outlet to maintain them while running (until you get your replacement DC regulator/charger installed) is the way to go to insure uninterrupted operation of your genset.

 

[nextalcupfan]

I've been told (by a guy who rebuilds starters/alternators for a living) that most batteries last 3-5 years depending on how often they are deeply discharged.
I didn't believe him, until my 9 year old optima fused the diodes in my alternator and fried the starter in my truck.

 

[rickf]

Update to my own message above:

I've been running for just over two days like this - DC Regulator Fuse removed (F1 on the schematic), and battery charger (a Guest 12v 2 Bank https://www.batterystuff.com/battery-chargers/12-volt/marine-chargers/GU2611A.html). This is plugged into the convenience outlet, and appears to be working (it is normally used to keep the batteries topped off when not running) - but I now have dead batteries.

As commented above, I noticed that the panel volt meter seemed to be be reading the battery voltage when I started the unit with the fuse removed, and was originally high in the green. Over the last two days, the voltage has been dropping steadily, and now is just in the red. Initially the battery charger LEDs indicated charging, then charged (everything looked good), and then moved into some kind of error state (both red & green LED's flashing) this evening. Batteries are pretty much dead - they won't crank the unit over after I stopped it this evening, and only TOTAL about 15v when the unit is running and charger disconnected.

I have just managed to jump start it, and it's running well (even with the jumping batteries removed) - but with the DC volt meter in the red, very slightly higher with charger attached. I'm very concerned that it's going to die - I'm assuming that at some point there won't be enough current to hold the stop solenoid in. I assume that it, and the aux fuel pump are the main consumers of DC current when the unit is running (?)

I'm very surprised this is happening - the charger is connected, and I think it's good. I am wondering if it somehow 'confused' in terms of battery conditioning because there is current being drawn - or even if the blown regulator has some effect, even with the fuse F1 removed (looking at the schematic it's not clear what the fuse does - both ends are connected to the regulator). It might also be that the short period of unregulated 33v somehow cooked the batteries. However, I can't really investigate this while I need the unit running.

Looks like we may not get power back for four more days (current prediction). I may buy two batteries as insurance tomorrow, and keep them charged (externally) to swap in. The originals are about 8 years old, though they seemed good - but I don't think I can run the unit without batteries AND the F1 fuse removed... (new regulator on the way, but probably 4 or 5 days out...about when we're scheduled to get power back....)

Apologies for the long description - I wonder, has anyone seen anything similar?

-Steve

Not trying to be a smart azz but you seem to have a few denial issues LOL. The batteries are junk! 5 years max and on a gen-set that vibrates like these do 5 years is asking a lot. If they were ever run down below 11 volts you will be lucky to get 2 years out of them. So get a couple new batteries, get that air box cleaned out and get it fired up. You may find that there is nothing wrong with the regulator if you are lucky. And I use 51R batteries for a Honda Civic, cheaper than 2HN's and more power. And a LOT easier to find.

 

[Light in the Dark]

51Rs are about $120/ea at Wal-Mart.. about $140 at TSC. I picked up some Champion AGMs a year ago at Pep Boys for like $160/pc, best price I could find on an AGM.

 

[Scoobyshep]

If you look in the -34 manual p7-8 it describes how to test the alternator.

 

[SteveH]

Not trying to be a smart azz but you seem to have a few denial issues LOL. The batteries are junk! 5 years max and on a gen-set that vibrates like these do 5 years is asking a lot. If they were ever run down below 11 volts you will be lucky to get 2 years out of them. So get a couple new batteries, get that air box cleaned out and get it fired up. You may find that there is nothing wrong with the regulator if you are lucky. And I use 51R batteries for a Honda Civic, cheaper than 2HN's and more power. And a LOT easier to find.

On the batteries, I kind of agree - though note that they were cranking great, but are about 7 years old. And now they're totally dead.....so going to head out and replace.

The airbox is all cleaned, and it's running great (apart from the DC) issue generating power since I cleaned everything out.

-Steve

 

[SteveH]

With your batteries being 8 yrs old and with being subjected to charging issues I think your strategy of buying 2 "new matched batteries" and installing them fully charged and then maintaining them with your external charger plugged in to convenience outlet to maintain them while running (until you get your replacement DC regulator/charger installed) is the way to go to insure uninterrupted operation of your genset.

Pretty much exactly what I have planned - thanks!

 

[SteveH]

Wow! Does yours have the ASK? Mine does

Yes. It's also installed in a small shed, with ducting between the ASK and the outside.

When I built it a few years ago I got a lot of help on the forum, and posted details of what I'd done (I also used a PLC to automate the unit).

Here's a post showing the final installation:

mep-003a running temp in a closed environment

Install some corrugated steel or aluminum under the deck at a slight slope (1/4"/ft with shims) and protect the genny from falling/dripping moisture and at same time, keep genny open from critters. Easy job. Jerry

www.steelsoldiers.com

The big disadvantage (I've now discovered) is having the ASK and that duct work means it takes longer to get to anything that needs fixing!

-Steve

 

[Scoobyshep]

Yes. It's also installed in a small shed, with ducting between the ASK and the outside.

When I built it a few years ago I got a lot of help on the forum, and posted details of what I'd done (I also used a PLC to automate the unit).

Here's a post showing the final installation:

mep-003a running temp in a closed environment

Install some corrugated steel or aluminum under the deck at a slight slope (1/4"/ft with shims) and protect the genny from falling/dripping moisture and at same time, keep genny open from critters. Easy job. Jerry

www.steelsoldiers.com

The big disadvantage (I've now discovered) is having the ASK and that duct work means it takes longer to get to anything that needs fixing!

-Steve

Nice work. I did something similar with my 004.

 

[rickf]

I decided to give mine a good going over and an oil change after this last outage in preparation for the next one and in my checks I found that my air louvers were not opening! The pivot had bound up in there so had to take it all apart and clean the rust off and grease it up and put it all back together. I guess since it was not super hot and I also had no critter nests then there was enough air moving to keep it cool. Even with the operating they are only opening about half way. Of coarse that is with no load.

 

[Chainbreaker]

Opening only half way or less is pretty typical without any load and is also dependent on ambient air temp. (might stay closed in winter or partially open in mild temperatures).

In general, the louvers mechanism if maintained is a fairly fail-safe mechanism that utilizes the melting of a type of wax at a specific temperature with a spring loaded mechanism.

 

[rickf]

On mine the pivot that the louver rods attach to was bound up pretty tight on the shaft. I had to take the whole thing apart and drive out the shaft, sand of the rust on the shaft and grease it up and reassemble everything. Even then trying to open the louvers by hand is really tough. I may take it apart again and look at the actual louver pivots also. Just too dang hot and humid the last few days.

 

[Chainbreaker]

I don't think you should be able to open the louvers by hand when unit is not up to temperature. When wax in capsule is solid it keeps louvers closed with quite a bit of resistance. Though, you could probably take a heat gun/hair dryer and heat up the wax cylinder to test free movement/operation. There is a test procedure in TM.

 

[rickf]

I was trying with the actuator out of the unit but actually that unit only pushes the louvers open. When cool the button on the actuator retracts and the springs on the louvers close them. There is no connection between the louvers and the actuator.