MEP005A no start fuel system issues

[jinlanli]

Hello, been working on this problem for a while. Engine not starting-no fuel to injectors. Injection pump had a frozen fuel shutoff. Removed top of injection pump and got fuel shut off freed up. Now that the fuel shutoff is working-still no fuel to injectors. A problem I noticed is when I operate the fuel pumps, fuel is being pumped out on the return line. Fuel lines are disconnected at injection pump, the return fuel line that goes to day tank, pumps fuel out when you engage fuel pumps. Why is there fuel being pumped back to injection pump on the return line? The solenoid is not powered as far as I can tell. Only two wires on solenoid, and they connect to a block. When checking for voltage at solenoid terminals, there is none. Brand new on this site and had a difficult time just trying to figure out how to send a message. Lord knows how I am to find a response to these questions on this site. The tee fitting on top of injection pump for return fuel does not have a check valve. Is it supposed to have a check valve? I will go back to work on this monstrosity by trying to get at the day tank floats to see if they are stuck and preventing return fuel solenoid from working. Perhaps I will get lucky. Any suggestions on what the problem is will be appreciated.

 

[Ray70]

If I follow you correctly you are curious as to why you are seeing fuel in the return lines with the machine not running?
If so, this is normal, the return lines and supply line to the IP are connected together.
The base of the Tee fitting coming out of IP top cover should have a glass ball check valve in it, however someone probably removed it at some point.
That check valve missing will not cause the machine to not run, but could cause the lines to drain back over time if the machine sits a long time.
Regarding your not running issue, if the machine has sat a long time and the fuel solenoid was stuck, there is a good possibility you have other problems within the IP itself. The plungers in the head tend to get stuck in the "compressed" position. The governor weight basket drive coupling also tends to deteriorate and fall apart. small bits of black rubber in the body of the IP is a sure sign the drive coupler is falling apart.

 

[Guyfang]

Ray, he may not know that the glass ball is IN the "T". Lots of people expect to see a check valve below or above the "T". The first time I looked for it, I did.

Have you ever seen this set run right?
Have you downloaded the TM's and at least read to operators portion?
Do you have 24 VDC at the IP shut off solenoid?

 

[jinlanli]

The check valve ball is in the top cover of the injection pump, not in the tee fitting. The check valve is there, and it moves when pressing on it. I suspect you are correct regarding stuck pistons in the head assembly. MEP005a manufactured 1989--I bought at auction--perhaps a mistake as seller never tried to see if engine ran. Now I have it. The fuel shut off in the injection pump was stuck but freed it up with PB Blaster. That is now working fine, but still no fuel to injectors. When I found the stuck fuel shutoff, I thought I had the problem solved. I guess not. How to you free up the stuck pistons in the head assembly?

 

[jinlanli]

Ray, he may not know that the glass ball is IN the "T". Lots of people expect to see a check valve below or above the "T". The first time I looked for it, I did.

Have you ever seen this set run right?
Have you downloaded the TM's and at least read to operators portion?
Do you have 24 VDC at the IP shut off solenoid?

24 volt at fuel solenoid battle short on and run---when starting with battle short off---24 volt to solenoid

 

[jinlanli]

when I took injector pump cover off, I verified that fuel solenoid worked when applied 24 volt

 

[Ray70]

Removing and rebuilding the IP is the only way I know of to free up stuck plungers.
While you're in there upgrade to the 1 piece steel weight basket and coupler instead of the OE rubber coupler.
They are available on Ebay for around $75 or maybe $125 for a rebuild kit with the steel coupler basket included.
I don't think there is any good way to free up the plungers by soaking the internals etc. because there's no way to apply air pressure or anything from outside the pump to force the 2 plungers to pop outward.

 

[jinlanli]

Thank you all for your good advice concerning the problems with my injection pump, caused by old fuel remaining in injection pump and sitting for years.
I have decided to let the pump soak in PB Blaster for a bit, tap lightly on exterior where pistons are located to see if by luck they free up. I will add penetrant to the input fuel fitting, spin engine over and repeat. My brother is a diesel mechanic and has told me how to remove the injection pump (line up timing marks) but with this engine sitting as long as it has, what else is stuck? I could get the injection pump off and take it to a repair shop, but what then if I have a working injection pump and find out my injectors are also stuck??? I will try to get it working without taking the injection pump off. Unit only has 790 hours, so I doubt that the pump and other components are worn out. Besides, made by Uncle Sam, right? Bullet proof you say. Well, if the pump does not unstick with penetrating oil, it will become another US made BOAT ANCHOR. I do not intend to throw good money away fixing a relic. Had it worked, I would put it to use, but it is not worth the time and effort and expense to repair at today's prices. Good luck to you all. Hope your machines keep running.

 

[Ray70]

If you end up being unsuccessful, I'd suggest listing it for sale in the classified section. I'd guarantee there are SS members reading this that would be willing to purchase it for the right price and repair it.
If you were a little closer I'd buy it in a heartbeat!

 

[jinlanli]

Hello Fellas,

Just and update on the MEP005A injection pump not working. I put PB blaster into the injection pump using a foot long clear plastic hose. I would fill line up with blaster, crank engine over which drew the blaster into the injection pump. After numerous cranks, and sitting overnight, the injection pump finally freed up and I got the diesel engine to fire up. Engine runs fine, no hunting of RPM's. Runs perfect. Amazing what PB Blaster can do for a relic like this. Now I have seen that the unit does not produce any voltage hertz etc. I assume that the field needs flashing, but not quite sure how to flash the field. One thread said to hold the start switch for 10 seconds after engine was running, another said to bring engine up to speed and unit would automatically flash the field. Any ideas?

 

[Guyfang]

The operators TM explains that the generator set will self excite. When starting, you hold the start switch up, until the oil pressure comes up to spec. Look at the hertz and volt meter during starting. When the S9 switch sends the signal to the starter relay to kick out, it also, at the same time sends voltage down to the main gen to excite it. The meters should come up, when it excites. Continue holding the start switch up. Do the gauges stay up, or did they come up? Or do they fall back as soon as you let the start switch go? This is important to know. The how and when.

Have someone film you during the start. So we can see and hear whats happening.

 

[jinlanli]

Ray, thank you for the response regarding flashing the field for generator. My machine has been sitting for years, and it would not even start. Injection pump not supplying fuel. Yesterday the injection pump finally became unstuck and delivered fuel to injectors. Engine started right up, but I let go of the start switch as soon as it started. Because I had been messing with the injector pump injector fuel lines, I had fuel leaks. Where the fuel lines connect to the injection pump, I had loosened them to help with getting the injection pump freed up. I tightened them back up when I realized the engine was about to start. When engine did start, fuel still leaked. Because of the fuel leak, I did not let the engine run too long. Maybe 5 minutes. Noticed alternator worked, 26.5 volt to batteries, but no readings on voltage--Hz. Checked output terminals, but nothing there either. I did flip the switch to engage relay for output power. Lite came on indicating relay closed, but no power at output terminals. Had oil pressure of 30psi showing on gauge, low oil lite went out after engine started. No other warning lites came on. Tested lites with test switch. All lites work. Read steel soldier forum about flashing and found same information you are telling me. The generator will self-excite if you continue to hold start switch after engine is running. You will not damage starter by continuing to engage a start condition, as centrifugal force will kick the starter out. I have to get some new copper washers for the injection pump, to re-seal fuel line connection to injection pump. Once I have taken care of the fuel leaks, I will start it up and proceed like you said. Hold start switch on after engine has started, and hopefully if nothing else is stuck, voltage will appear on gauges. Once voltage is seen on gauge, I will release start and let it remain in run position. If generator did excite, then voltage should continue to show after releasing the start switch. I will hold the start switch after the engine has started no longer than about 10 seconds. If voltage does not appear on gauges, I still have an issue. Because no warning lites came on after the engine started, I think all I need to do is what you said. Hold start switch on after engine has started and watch gauges. Once voltage shows, release start switch, but do not run starter for more than 10 seconds after engine has started. I am also aware of the reset switch found on the engine speed sensor. If generator does not excite, I will check that also. Right now, the reset switch is ok and has not tripped. I am also aware that if generator does not excite, it is possible there are broken wiring connections at this point. Everything looks good on unit. No mice chewing up the wiring harness, so hopefully unit will work once I perform the right starting procedures.

Thanks again for the quick response and accurate information.

 

[Ray70]

That was Guy's insight, not mine
He's in a much earlier time zone... I was still asleep....

 

[jinlanli]

Update on MEP005A generator. Injection pump working now, unstuck after years of non-use. Thanks to PB Blaster. Installed new seals on injection pump fuel line connections-no leaks anymore-unit starts and produces 120/208 3 phase. Alternator produces 27 volts DC or so to batteries--Voltage rheostat works to adjust voltage independent of rpm--HZ rheostat does not alter HZ--at start HZ is at 53--increase rpm and gauge can be adjusted to 60HZ. When engine starts- it runs up to the pre-set speed on the throttle at injection pump. Manual throttle is pushed all the way in. Sounds to me like the engine is pre-set at 1800 rpm, but unknown. I will get a no contact digital tachometer to verify what the engine rpm is. The only way I can get 60HZ on the gauge is by increasing engine rpm. The HZ rheostat does nothing when you turn it up or down. Any ideas on what is going on with the HZ? Does the rheostat for HZ supposed to be able to be varied independent of rpm like the voltage? Funny bringing up the rpm causes the gauge to move from 53HZ to 60HZ with the manual throttle pulled out about 3/4 inch. Increasing the rpm does not cause an increase in voltage. Only the HZ increases with higher rpm. The machine should have had a tachometer. They designed all this other crap into it and failed to provide a most needed gauge. Snow has arrived at Hawley, MN so unit will rest in pole barn until spring now. I will periodically fire it up and let it run for an hour or so to keep the bugger freed up. Also--not sure if thermostat is opening as I do not see antifreeze movement when I remove the radiator cap. Temp gauge after an hour of running does not move. Thanks for the information regarding the self-exciting of the generator by holding the start switch on after the engine has started and continue to hold until you see voltage on the gauge. Then release start switch and remain in run position. Have a good weekend and any advice regarding the HZ would be helpful.

 

[Guyfang]

Update on MEP005A generator. Injection pump working now, unstuck after years of non-use. Thanks to PB Blaster. Installed new seals on injection pump fuel line connections-no leaks anymore-unit starts and produces 120/208 3 phase. Alternator produces 27 volts DC or so to batteries--Voltage rheostat works to adjust voltage independent of rpm--HZ rheostat does not alter HZ--at start HZ is at 53--increase rpm and gauge can be adjusted to 60HZ. (Please read the Operator TM. The Hertz rheostat has no function on the MEP-005A. This set is a Utility Generator set. No electric governor and that means you can not adjust the hertz from the panel.) When engine starts- it runs up to the pre-set speed on the throttle at injection pump. Manual throttle is pushed all the way in. (This is wrong. Start the set, use the Manual Throttle control to adjust the set to the correct 60 hertz, or better, 61 hertz, and LEAVE the control knob where its at. DO NOT "throttle down the set, when turning it off. Simply turn it off.) Sounds to me like the engine is pre-set at 1800 rpm, but unknown. I will get a no contact digital tachometer to verify what the engine rpm is. The only way I can get 60HZ on the gauge is by increasing engine rpm. (see above) The HZ rheostat does nothing when you turn it up or down. Any ideas on what is going on with the HZ? Does the rheostat for HZ supposed to be able to be varied independent of rpm like the voltage? Funny bringing up the rpm causes the gauge to move from 53HZ to 60HZ with the manual throttle pulled out about 3/4 inch. Increasing the rpm does not cause an increase in voltage. (Why should it increase voltage? Separate function) Only the HZ increases with higher rpm. The machine should have had a tachometer. (Why? The hertz meter is the tachometer. RPM=HERTZ) They designed all this other crap into it and failed to provide a most needed gauge. Snow has arrived at Hawley, MN so unit will rest in pole barn until spring now. I will periodically fire it up and let it run for an hour or so to keep the bugger freed up. Also--not sure if thermostat is opening as I do not see antifreeze movement when I remove the radiator cap. Temp gauge after an hour of running does not move. (Go to the left front door. Open it, and reach in to use the manual shutter control, to exersize the shutters. Then leave it alone. The shutter rarly open, unless you put the gen set under load. Simple running it with no load is not good for this gen set. It will wet stack. If you put it under at least a 60-70% load, the set works harder, the temprature should come up and the shutters should open. That is the only way to test the shutter control. I would replace the thermostat on any old generator, anyways.) Thanks for the information regarding the self-exciting of the generator by holding the start switch on after the engine has started and continue to hold until you see voltage on the gauge. Then release start switch and remain in run position. Have a good weekend and any advice regarding the HZ would be helpful.

 

[jinlanli]

MEP005A is working as expected. Put a 100-amp load on it and it did not even grunt. Throttle out to achieve 61HZ. Thank you guys for all your help. Perhaps the MEP005A is bullet proof after all. Will look up in the TM about the cooling system. I want to change the coolant but want to make sure that it circulates through the block back to radiator. So far, running a 100-amp load for 1 hour, unknown if water is circulating. Cannot see movement of antifreeze with radiator cap off. Temp gauge does not move. PS, thanks for the info regarding HZ rheostat not working to adjust frequency. Rheostat has no function on a utility generator. Speed up the generator and gauge will indicate proper HZ.

 

[Guyfang]

This old man doesn't understand 100 amp load. Tell me KW. And look at the shutters. If they do not open up at least a bit after 1 hour, exercise them by hand, to make sure someone has not over tightened the bolt that guides the lever, or they are gummed up. If the temp gage will not move, I suspect the the thermostat is stuck open, or the load is too small. 100 amps doesn't sound to small to me. Soooooooooo, look at the shutters to see if they have not opened.

 

[jinlanli]

The 100amp load was 21.5 KW. Do not have a load bank but do have electric furnaces. They work well to load up the genset. The shutters were stuck partially open. I freed them up, and now they open and close very easily. I will fire up the generator again tomorrow to see if shutters open, which means the shutter stat is working. I am an old man also. 70 soon to be 71. Thanks for your advice. Fingers crossed that engine warms up properly and opens the shutters.

 

[jinlanli]

I am impressed with the MEP005A genset. After years of neglect, the bugger still works very well. Only issue left to resolve is the cooling system. Fresh antifreeze and a test run again tomorrow. Have a Happy Thanksgiving to one and all!

 

[Guyfang]

We are the same age.

The MEP-005A and MEP-004A are my favorite gen sets. They could use some updates, but by and large, great sets. I NEVER saw a White Engine destroy itself. NEVER. The main gen is bomb proof. Yeah, the diodes blow, but very seldom. The main gen bearing is super, but after 30-40 years might be changed.