NDCC Tire Design --> Obsolete and Unsafe?

[ARMYMAN30YearsPlus]

I don't ever recall seeing a 915 with the type of NDT that we have on the dueces and five tons. They came issued with 10.00 20 commecial bias tires. When given the chance and funding we switched them over to radial and got much better performance and milage. The other 900 series trucks came with other than duece style tires too so I think the article may be a little miss-leading. Our first M 915's had 400 Cummins and Cat air shift transmissions that would allow a speed near 100 MPH as veified by Tachograph record. In Germany the Trans BDE had the highest gears locked out so the drivers could not go so fast. The latest version of M 915 is a far cry from our old ones and I will try to post some pictures of armored ones in the near future. Bottom line is that Army drivers like to drive fast if not watched and that is the biggest cause of accidents.

 

[steelsoldiers]

Sorry David, I'm a doofus, I meant to say the 925 cargo trucks. Sorry for the confusion. I drove by my local ARNG unit today. They have some really clean looking M925's, the original, not the A2's. They look to have some sort of commercial type tire on them too. Didn't want to snoop too much to actually see what they were.

 

[cranetruck]

I have a set of the XL'S on my deuce and there great off road but even on dry roads there not much better then the old NDT'S. I had it out in the cold wet raid we got here last week and the XL'S were just as bad as the NDT'S. Face it kids if you don't have tires made for the road, there going to suck.

It is really hard to find good design info on tires, it's almost as if it was an art. Corresponded with a "senior designer" at Goodyear, who worked at the plant where some of my 8x8 tires were made ca 1990 and he knew nothing about them. He suggested I call Acron Ohio, yeah right another dead end.

Siping for traction on wet pavement is nothing new and bias ply tires are still made for many applications.
The images below show a comparison of perhaps the ultimate in a bias ply tire (although worn) and a new Michelin/Goodyear XL radial.
Note the evidence of grooving and siping on the bias ply NDCC tire. If both were brand new, I think the bias one would do better on wet pavement..probably run cooler too with less flexing of the threads, but like I said, try to find good design info.
There are 3 different manufactures of the tires on my 757, Goodyear, BF Goodrich and Uniroyal (who made a radial version of the 16/70-20 tire). They are all tubeless and 30 psi for hwy driving.
The tire shown below is a BF Goodrich one.

Edit: Added image of slightly worn XL tire

 

[tmbrwolf]

The problem is with the M939 series 5 tonners, the NDCC + air brakes + wet / icy just didn't play well together, at one time most of the fatal army MVA's were with this series truck, At the time the fleet was approxamately 5% with 60 - 70% of the fatalities not a good ratio! Most were loss of control with rollover. There was a safety of use message that restricted all the M939 series to 45 MPH until the trucks received the anti-lock brake upgrade, For the "basic model" the restriction could only be lifted after the trucks received the anti-lock brake upgrade and change of tires to 11.00 X 20 radial tires usually Michlin XL's

 

[datsunaholic]

The M923 my Navy Reserve unit had was equipped with ABS, but still had the NDCCs. Don't know what variant it was, though- the ABS was definitely a retrofit.

We tried to get a M923 from DRMO to replace the M813 that was beyond salvage, but they couldn't issue us any due to the ones at DRMO not having ABS (and some didn't even have automatic transmissions).

 

[emr]

Every tire has a give and a take, and like so correctly said earlier, NOTHING on these trucks is safe by todays standards, singleing out the tires is silly, but thats just me, For me i have almost 40 thou on NDT's and they are safe for me as any other,In all weather, sure i could easily push em past there safety point , and take my antique truck around a turn faster in the rain with some say awesome G177's, But as far as a hobbiest goes, I know what my truck was built for and do it, siping is about the wisest choice i have seen for sure, that is basic good sense with an older technology,and keeps the correctness I love. But I do not do it, have not seen the need for me anyway, but sure do see the improvement, its real..I have found between 35 to 40 #s in the deuls and 45 in the front of an empty deuce to be just fine all around, BUT I also take the time to make the air adjustments recomended, doing that they are a timeless deign. But for the time in todays real life and the under trained drivers,or should i say alot of kids that can not even drive a standerd transmision.it is old unfreandly tech, and the way of the dinosour.for actual combat use, but they are just fine for the speeds of an M series along with recomended air pressures anywhere anytime....oh my super 1400"s are stamped max speed 55, i hear people bragging they can do 65 with them, that is alot more dangerous any day than running NDT's...Randy

 

[BEASTMASTER]

it all depends on the driver. i got them big tires on my pickup for running the beach and they stink in wet weather,and are useless in the snow. it all depends on the driver . " A MAN HAS GOT TO KNOW HIS LIMITATIONS"

 

[NEIOWA]

The NDCC tires are as safe as the OEM tires on a Model A. Some things need to go in the dustbin of history. Redesigning the brake system, retrofit a modern dash with airbags, etc is a bit difficult. Decent tires are the most important single safety item on a vehicle.

And when you need new tires installing modern tires is money well spent. Firetruck industry safety standard (truck sitting with limited use) established by NFPA is replace all tires after 7 years. How old are the tires on your truck?

 

[tobyS]

It's good to know the tires I have run for 25 years may be unsafe at high speed (or wet). Then again, I can't go high speed. Top speed is 50. My problem is checking. But even with massive sidewall checks, they hold air. I purchased 3 M105's for the tires and gave the boomtruck new ones.

Anyone with NDCC in good condition 9.00, 11.00 or 14.00 that wants to get rid of them, (free or cheap) pm me.

 

[acesneights1]

Nothing about my 40-year-old deuce is safe 'by modern standards'... single-circuit braking, no shoulder belts, no impact energy absorption features or, perhaps most importantly, no rollover protection. But I like it just the way it is!... If Bill Gates offered to 'spare no expense' in upgrading my truck to include all these modern safety improvements for me, I would politely decline the offer.

I haven't driven my deuce in the rain yet, but I'm sure I'd agree that the wet traction leaves something to be desired. To a large extent that can be compensated for by planning ahead and driving carefully. Changes in vehicle speeds? I can still only go 55, and that isn't enough speed to cause even my rotten old tires to fly apart.

Maybe the Global Security article was suggesting that NDCCs were unsafe for some of the newer, faster trucks?

Regards,
Jon

That sums it up. 10 wheel dump trucks were not designed to haul 80,000 lbs either but pay your fee and get an overweight permit and now it's all good to go...Funny, didn't know a piece of paper could make a truck stop better...lol
It's all about using common sense when driving anything . Plenty of people rolling down the road in lifted trucks with big tires too. Common sense...that is what is needed these days.
Keep your truck in good order and don't drive like an (insert expletive) and nothing bad is likely to happen.

 

[acesneights1]

It's good to know the tires I have run for 25 years may be unsafe at high speed (or wet). Then again, I can't go high speed. Top speed is 50. My problem is checking. But even with massive sidewall checks, they hold air. I purchased 3 M105's for the tires and gave the boomtruck new ones.

Anyone with NDCC in good condition 9.00, 11.00 or 14.00 that wants to get rid of them, (free or cheap) pm me.

That is so funny, I was gonna do the same thing with my 73 F600. They use the same rim as a Deuce/M105a2. I got lucky and found some 8.25's though used in good shape. I don't screw with cracked tires. Not worth it. I have seen a dry rotted tire explode. It was not pretty.

 

[emr]

The non directional old school tires are amazing and work well in all condition's as long as proper air guide lines are followed, I ran em for about close to 40 to 60 ,000 miles on some deuces I had and s 5 ton that I ran them on, I ran in all weather condition's though NJ weather, That says extremes from one spectrum to another . I found they were and are a mazing, But with that said there are better today, But they are far from unsafe, It is more than my opinion that is up to the driver driving a tactical vehicle, remember they are TACTICAL tires ))) And are sweet looking and performing even by todays standards, they were never overloaded, never suffered from catastrophic side wall failure under loads like todays tires, even when run with amazing maximum traction under loads at 15 to 20 pounds pressure , there more than proved them selves, But over all they are no match for new stuff.

 

[WillWagner]

You guys do realize this thread is from 2007-09 correct? Has good info though!

 

[Csm Davis]

I will say this I never had a NDT just sitting there blowout I have seen and heard many of the "new" tires do just that. I'm not sure if this is because of the bias vs radial design or the older tires were just built better but I aired up a set on a 1953 that had been setting for more than 20 years and pulled it out of the weeds and 10 miles to the house and many of them still have air in them 3 years later.

 

[Csm Davis]

Now as to the road safety there is no comparison between the two if both are new and in good condition the newer squared off tires work much better wet or dry.

 

[Csm Davis]

Now offroad I will say they work well if you air down and know how to drive. I have driven a M35a2c in a mud bog and walked right past where most of the big boy unlimited class got stuck, so I believe that they work well off road

 

[frank8003]

2007 thread now, no problem, that was just eight years ago.
Frank Sinatra would be one hundred years old 12122015.

71 years ago NDC tires were good enough for operation Overlord.
Worked then, works now.

Note that the "boots are made for walkin" girl is 74 now.
46 million you tube views for boots?

Oops, this is about tires.

My truck is over 45 and the NDC are good enough for Me.

anyhow add a view
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbyAZQ45uww