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Need help with Brakes leaking down and needing bleeding constantly.

69DeuceJuice

Member
37
81
18
Location
North Carolina
Hey guys I just bought my first m35a2 got it home after bleeding the brakes and had some pedals to it but not great. I got in it this morning and let it run to build air and when I pressed the pedal I had nothing it went straight to the floor. I bleed the air pack fitting. Then the pass rear wheel, then driver, then intermediate pass, then driver, then pass front and finally driver front. Had somewhat good pedal at least enough to drive it an hour home. Am I missing something? I know someone on here will have a magic answer.
 

porkysplace

Well-known member
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Location
mid- michigan
It's got a leak somewhere , your probably going to have drums if it isn't leaking enough to leave a trail of fluid on the backing plates
or bottom of the drum . Could be a internal leak in the air pack . Only why to find out is a visual inspection of all the brake parts .
No magic answer on deuce brakes .

EDIT: These 2 TM are for the brakes

TB-9-2300-426-20.pdf TB-9-2300-426-20 Hydraulic and Air Hydraulic Brakes preventive maintenance.

TB43-0002-87.pdf TB43-0002-87 Brake fluid replacement procedure.

Hopefully you already downloaded and read this one :

TM9-2320-209-10-1.pdf
TM9-2320-209-10-1 Operation, Installation and Reference data for the M35 series, Operator Level.


And all the deuce TM's here : https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/tms-for-the-deuce.77607/
 
Last edited:

69DeuceJuice

Member
37
81
18
Location
North Carolina
It's got a leak somewhere , your probably going to have drums if it isn't leaking enough to leave a trail of fluid on the backing plates
or bottom of the drum . Could be a internal leak in the air pack . Only why to find out is a visual inspection of all the brake parts .
No magic answer on deuce brakes .

EDIT: These 2 TM are for the brakes

TB-9-2300-426-20.pdf TB-9-2300-426-20 Hydraulic and Air Hydraulic Brakes preventive maintenance.

TB43-0002-87.pdf TB43-0002-87 Brake fluid replacement procedure.

Hopefully you already downloaded and read this one :

TM9-2320-209-10-1.pdf
TM9-2320-209-10-1 Operation, Installation and Reference data for the M35 series, Operator Level.


And all the deuce TM's here : https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/tms-for-the-deuce.77607/
After doing a good walk around the truck and a quick climb underneath the only leaks I could spot were on the drivers intermediate tire on the outside of the wheel. It looks like an out hub seal that’s leaking gear oil to me, but that’s only because I’d assume if it was a wheel cylinder it would be on the backside of the wheel coming out of the drum and the backing plate not the front of the wheel. If i do have an internal leak in the air pack am I getting fluid into the air pack? Or am I getting air from the pack into the fluid?
 

WillWagner

The Person You Were Warned About As A Child
Super Moderator
Steel Soldiers Supporter
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2,780
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Location
Monrovia, Ca.
Start farthest away when bleeding. MC, Air pack, Rt RR, lt RR, rt INT, lt INT, pax FT, dr FT. Are you adding fluid, is it empty/low before you re bleed? Does your truck still have the fording stuff attached? A failed air pack can push brake fluid out of the blow by tube if all that stuff is still in tact.

If the air pack is stuck/not working, you will still have brakes, but they will be very stiff and the truck will be hard to stop but you might think that that is normal because it is old school. If the air pack was stuck and freed itself up when driving, this usually happens with a hard braking event, brake fluid will pizz out the blow by tube and leave a mess on the pax side front axle area.

To see if the fording stuff is still hooked up, engine off but air in the system. Step on the brake pedal. If the fording plumbing is in tact, you will hear air venting out of the blow by tube.

Another issue, especially if the fluid isn't low but is added when bleeding, is the MC bypassing. You will have no pedal/resistance, goes right to the floor. If you step on the pedal a few times, pedal can return, you'll bleed and think it was just air.

The next time you have no pedal, take the MC cap off, look at fluid level. If full, most likely a MC issue. Put your hand on the pedal and depress it just enough to contact and move the piston to uncover the vent hole. Look for fluid/air to come out of the hole. If you press the pedal hard and release it, there should be a small geyser of fluid come up out of the fill hole. Bubbles out of the hole means air in the system.

Remember, there needs to be freeplay in the pedal BEFORE the rod contacts and starts moving the piston in the MC. Pedal needs to move, rod needs to move, THEN contact the piston. If no freeplay/piston not fully returning, bleeding is futile.
 
Last edited:

69DeuceJuice

Member
37
81
18
Location
North Carolina
Start farthest away when bleeding. MC, Air pack, Rt RR, lt RR, rt INT, lt INT, pax FT, dr FT. Are you adding fluid, is it empty/low before you re bleed? Does your truck still have the fording stuff attached? A failed air pack can push brake fluid out of the blow by tube if all that stuff is still in tact.

If the air pack is stuck/not working, you will still have brakes, but they will be very stiff and the truck will be hard to stop but you might think that that is normal because it is old school. If the air pack was stuck and freed itself up when driving, this usually happens with a hard braking event, brake fluid will pizz out the blow by tube and leave a mess on the pax side front axle area.

To see if the fording stuff is still hooked up, engine off but air in the system. Step on the brake pedal. If the fording plumbing is in tact, you will hear air venting out of the blow by tube.

Another issue, especially if the fluid isn't low but is added when bleeding, is the MC bypassing. You will have no pedal/resistance, goes right to the floor. If you step on the pedal a few times, pedal can return, you'll bleed and think it was just air.

The next time you have no pedal, take the MC cap off, look at fluid level. If full, most likely a MC issue. Put your hand on the pedal and depress it just enough to contact and move the piston to uncover the vent hole. Look for fluid/air to come out of the hole. If you press the pedal hard and release it, there should be a small geyser of fluid come up out of the fill hole. Bubbles out of the hole means air in the system.

Remember, there needs to be freeplay in the pedal BEFORE the rod contacts and starts moving the piston in the MC. Pedal needs to move, rod needs to move, THEN contact the piston. If no freeplay/piston not fully returning, bleeding is futile.
There’s a large copper tube with a vent added on top that someone has added I believe it sticks up to the right of the air cleaner between it and the intake manifold, when I press the brakes and release them I get brake fluid shooting out of this tube along with air from what I believe to be the vent tube off of the air pack. I think I my fluid may be leaking into the air pack and when the brakes are released it’s sprays the fluid out this vent tube.
 

WillWagner

The Person You Were Warned About As A Child
Super Moderator
Steel Soldiers Supporter
8,545
2,780
113
Location
Monrovia, Ca.
Failed air pack. IIRC, the TM in the deuce section has the wrong info on rebuilding. Sequence of assembly. Pay attention to the order you disassemble. It has been a bit, I do not know who has kits any more. MAYBE Big Mikes Motor Pool. There are two different air packs, a long that was the original and a short one. Make sure you get the correct kit. Also, as long as you are there, do the MC. Try and avoid Chinese parts if possible.

Don't know what kind of delio it is to convert long to short air pack.
 

SCSG-G4

PSVB 3003
5,379
3,413
113
Location
Lexington, South Carolina
Failed air pack. IIRC, the TM in the deuce section has the wrong info on rebuilding. Sequence of assembly. Pay attention to the order you disassemble. It has been a bit, I do not know who has kits any more. MAYBE Big Mikes Motor Pool. There are two different air packs, a long that was the original and a short one. Make sure you get the correct kit. Also, as long as you are there, do the MC. Try and avoid Chinese parts if possible.

Don't know what kind of delio it is to convert long to short air pack.
Short air pack fits in the same place as the long one. All attaching points are the same.
 

69DeuceJuice

Member
37
81
18
Location
North Carolina
Failed air pack. IIRC, the TM in the deuce section has the wrong info on rebuilding. Sequence of assembly. Pay attention to the order you disassemble. It has been a bit, I do not know who has kits any more. MAYBE Big Mikes Motor Pool. There are two different air packs, a long that was the original and a short one. Make sure you get the correct kit. Also, as long as you are there, do the MC. Try and avoid Chinese parts if possible.

Don't know what kind of delio it is to convert long to short air pack.
Big mikes has kits for both master cylinder and air pack mine is the long style. I also believe someone has put some dot3-4 in it at some point cause the fluid looks a little milky when I bled it so when I do the MC and airpack I’ll do a full flush of the system with dot5 thank you for the info on the airpack failure. Tactical repair on YouTube has a great two part series showing the disassembly and repair process of the airpack and I’m sure he has one of the MC aswell
 

porkysplace

Well-known member
9,604
1,494
113
Location
mid- michigan
Big mikes has kits for both master cylinder and air pack mine is the long style. I also believe someone has put some dot3-4 in it at some point cause the fluid looks a little milky when I bled it so when I do the MC and airpack I’ll do a full flush of the system with dot5 thank you for the info on the airpack failure. Tactical repair on YouTube has a great two part series showing the disassembly and repair process of the airpack and I’m sure he has one of the MC aswell
Here is a thread with pictures : https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/my-airpack-rebuild-with-photos.82753/
 
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