Need Help with new to me M37

[grimlock97]

Hello everyone, i'm new to the forum, but I have been lurking trying to diagnose my M37 for a couple of weeks. I cannot get the beast to start, i'm not necessarily new to mechanicin, but i'm new to the M37, I have 2 Willys, and have restored several 70s model civilian vehicles, but i'm at a loss on this one. It is a 1953 M37 that I picked up a few weeks back just to play with for a while until I get on to restoring it, I have spark, I have air, and I have fuel, It just turns and turns, the original 24v system is still in tact and working, even all the lights work, it just will not run, the carburetor was rebuilt before I got it, but I have taken it off a few times to adjust the float, I have video taped good strong spark at the plugs, the plugs are civilian R45s I think, I will get the original plugs and wires later, but they all spark good, I took the valve covers off today to make sure the lifters were lifting, I've seen that a few times, but they all lift good, so i'm guessing the valves are opening up, whenever I take the carb off the intake manifold usually has a small puddle of fuel in it, I disconnected the metering valve assembly and the fuel poured out, I dried the intake out, put fuel just in the bowl of the carb and still nothing, my plugs don't even seem to be wet, I have checked compression and I have 90# on cylinder 1 and 2 and 130# on the remaining 4 cylinders, I know 1 and 2 need some attention but 90 should be enough to start according to the TM, i'm working alone so I had to video tape the lifters lifting and the sparks sparking, so i'm just lost on this one, it seems like it's flooding but there is no unburnt fuel in the cylinders, I have even tried starting fluid with no luck, sorry for the long post, I just need some ideas, Thanks

 

[poppop]

Welcome to SS. It sounds like you have everything you need for it to run. Are you sure all the plug wires are on the right plugs?? It still should pop or backfire some even if they were all wrong. When you checked the plugs did you leave each one hooked to it orginal wire?? When I got mine it only ran on three cylinders and really had me scratching my head. The cap was bad and not sending fire to three plugs.

I helped a friend start am M38 that had been sitting a long time. We had fire and fuel but it would not pop or anything. It did have one stuck valve which we freed up. I did not check compression but did an old trick I learned for helping engines that had sat for a while increase compression. The rings and cylinder walls are dry from having sat for so long so I put a little oil in each plug hole to seal the rings. After that it started and ran quite well.

 

[NDT]

Set the plugs next to the holes you believe they belong in. Crank the motor and put your finger over the holes one by one. Make sure your finger is blown off the hole at the same time the plug for that hole is sparking.

 

[grimlock97]

Thanks for the replies, I did check the firing order with the TM and the corresponding plug wires seem to be going to the correct plugs, I did put oil in the first two cylinders about a week ago to try to get it to fire, I guess I could put oil in the remaining cylinders, but I did check compression and they were at 130. NDT, i'm having to do all the work myself, i'm not sure how to put my finger over the hole, and let it be blown off while cranking it at the same time. Also, won't you get a good shock from the plug if your too close to the plug? Poppop, how did you free the valve? I pulled the valve covers and all the lifters are pushing the valve springs up and down as they should, so im guessing the valves aren't stuck, I just pulled the top off the carb with it still on the intake b/c I thought maybe the float was set incorrect, but it seems to be working as it should as well, also i'm still curious as to why none of my plugs are wet. Thanks again for the help,

 

[poppop]

Grimlock, if you had a stuck valve you would get 0 compression on that cylinder, so I think you are good there. To free up The M38 we took the side cover off and used penatrating oil and tapped on it and it came free, it was not stuck bad.

You say the carb was rebuilt before you got it, has it ran since it was rebuilt?? I think you have a carb problem. Pour a little gas directly down the carb and if you get some action then you know its the carburater. You have enough compression to run and if the plugs are firing correctly and at the right time then it has to be a fuel problem.

 

[grimlock97]

The carb was rebuilt before I got it, and it supposedly ran great when I picked it up, but I didn't hear it run, it seems like it is flooding the intake, I have sprayed starter fluid down the throat and it will not fire off, also, every time I take the carburetor off there is fuel puddling in the intake, i'm sure it's flooding for some reason, but I have taken the carb apart a few times and nothing in there looks to cause it to flood, I have disconnected fuel from the fuel pump, put gas just in the bowl so there would be just a small amount of fuel and tried to start, and nothing. The first time I took the carb apart a ball fell out, and i'm not a hundred percent sure where it went, but put it back in beneath a small spring and cover as it fit nicely, i'm pretty sure it is the correct place for the ball but not a hundred percent. thanks again for the help, this is really stumping me.

 

[grimlock97]

I know pictures are worth a thousand words, here are a couple of pictures, I just tried to start it a couple of times, and removed the carburetor, it may be kind of hard to see but that is a picture of the intake full of fuel.

 

[EMD567]

Is your needle valve on the float seating correctly? It is located right where the gas line enters the carb.

 

[grimlock97]

I believe so, I took the top of the carb off with the fuel line connected so I could check it, whenever I push down on the float, it opens the needle and lets fuel in the bowl, whenever I raised the float, the needle would stop the fuel from coming into the bowl, so to me it is working correctly, but how much fuel should be in the bowl, it is probably half full.

 

[poppop]

It probably should be more than half full, but it should run. It does not take much raw gas to foul the plugs, you might need to check them again. How are you getting gas to the carb?? When I drove mine the gas tank was already out and I was using a 1 gallon tank and gravity feed. I found out the tank had to be 3 feet above the carb to have enough pressure to feed. I am about out of ideas without being able to lay hands on it.

 

[grimlock97]

I took my stock fuel tank out because the lines were completely full of crud, so was the tank, I have it going from a gas can sitting on the ground, going through the fuel pump into the carburetor, there is pressure on the fuel inlet if I disconnect the fuel line, I still can't figure out why fuel is collecting in the intake manifold and the plugs are not wet. If you were closer to Atlanta I would bring it to you in a minute if you could get it running, brooklet is a little far though. ha ha. I posted pictures on here but got a message that a moderator had to approve them first, thanks again.

 

[grimlock97]

ok, since my plugs were not wet I poured fuel into the cylinders individually, and it still is not starting, but again I know i'm getting spark, is it possible the exhaust is plugged somehow not allowing everything to operate properly, i'm grasping, there is a lot of fuel in the intake manifold and I know there's spark on each plug, timing seems to be correct, I have compression, there is air, the valves are opening, I just don't understand.

 

[Thunder in NWOR]

I once had a problem with my Command Car (WC56) when putting in my rebuilt engine. Had good spark, fuel, all the things you mentioned.
Come to find out that when the oil pump went back in (top gear drives the distributor) the setting was one gear tooth off, therefore distributor was not timed.
Check your TM, it will show you how to check that.
good luck, Mark

 

[grimlock97]

thanks, i'll try anything at this point.

 

[poppop]

The above post is a good point. I rebuilt the 454 engine in my Chevy 1 ton truck and could not get it started. We had dropped the distributor in 180 degrees off. Found that and relocated it and got it started and ran OK, but you need a computer to time it correctly. The local shops computer could not read it and advised I take it to an Auto electrician. She found it was still 1 tooth off and 40 degrees out of time. Of course for this to happen someone had to pull the distribtor for some reason.

 

[grimlock97]

Digging around some more, my neighbor came to assist for a moment, I have been checking the spark on cylinder #1 the whole time, so I pulled all the plugs out and had him turn it over, I did not see spark on anything except cylinder #1, so I pulled the wire off at the distributor, I found someone has cut the end off and kind of rigged the wiring, after fooling with it, I had spark on 1 and 6, i'm going to try to get some cheap plug wires to verify spark on all cylinders this time, here is a picture if it will work this time

 

[poppop]

OK, so now you are getting somewhere. Inside each plug wire hole in the cap is a flat shiny piece of metal. I believe it has a short stem on it that feeds the fire from the rotor button. Three of these were missing on mine and that is why it only ran on three cylinders. I had to replace the cap and it ran fine. There is a round cap inside the external cap that the wires screw to. That is what needs to be replaced if it is bad.

 

[NDT]

You cannot use fiber core plug wires doing like you are, they need to be stranded copper conductor. These are not available at usual auto parts supply houses anymore.

 

[poppop]

NDT is right, I missed that. If this were mine I would buy an ignition tune up kit and replace everything in the distributor and a new set of correct wires. I did run some civy wires on my 151 but I could still get copper stranded at NAPA.

 

[grimlock97]

thanks guys, I accidentally went out and bought the wires before I saw you post, the wires I got say radio suppression core wires for points systems, and the ones that are on there now say silicone core. If these will not work I will box them back up and take them back. I will order the right plugs and wires, I know the points are new and the condenser, but where can I get all new electrical tune up kit? thanks again