Need some ideas with a new problem..

[Volfe]

Greetings all,

Again I find myself at a loss of which way to turn with this problem. I have been working with RancherRob and his M35. We have her fully assembled and road test worthy. We figured out the steering issue and actually got her out for a couple of road tests. Unfortunately on her second and third road test, we discovered that the front right wheel hub is over heating and we get a random rubbing sound that vibrates the front end. We used a laser temp sensor and discovered that the hub was quite a bit warmer than the others. Thinking that I may have been a bit over zealous with tightening the wheel bearings (Personally I don't like the idea of a wheel coming off), I tore the hub down, clean, inspected and repacked the bearings with fresh grease. Following the TM I tightened the hub to the standard and again road tested her (third road test). This is when we discovered that the actual steering knuckle is warmer than the hub (at it's highest temp was about 180 degrees F.) I am at a loss. Is there something that may have been over looked when the steering knuckle was reassembled? I know that the front drive shaft was replaced with an aftermarket one from Ouverson Engineering. Some ideas would be appreciated and welcome. If you have questions about what has been done, I will do my best to answer follow up questions.

Thanks in advance for any ideas..

Volfe

 

[rosco]

Your missing something. 180*F is pretty hot. There is not that much stuff on the wheel end that can generate heat. Brakes dragging, wheel bearings (under some conditions), and in the knuckle, the U-joint cross, or the axle bushing.

 

[Heavy D.]

Could it be your brake shoes rubbing on the drum? That would cause rubbing sounds and heat if they were out of adjustment... with the wheel off does free spinning the hub give you any of the symptoms?

 

[RAYZER]

There is also a thrust bearing in there that could be bad.

 

[Scarecrow1]

To generate that much heat I am in favor of a break dragging or not retracting all the way back. If it was a bearing getting that hot it would be melting and slinging grease out of it so you may look for those signs also . Good luck ........

 

[chigger]

My brakes drug and heated up after I changed some parts. I thought I could get away with only adjusting the top adjusters. The bottom pivot of the brake shoes do not float and need to be adjusted as well. Another things is that tf the brakes are set too tight, then as they heat up they expand and start to drag. Once I followed the procedure in the TM, my brake heating problem went away.

 

[welldigger]

Did you repack the inside of the spindle with grease? By that I mean where the shaft goes through the spindle. Also on either side of the u-joint there are thrust surfaces that need grease. Also your brakes could be adjusted a bit far out. That will get hot real fast.

 

[gimpyrobb]

I've always felt the TMs way of doing the axle nuts would put too much preload on the bearings. Ask any mechanic and they will tell you that they have seen bearings go bad from being too tight, and never seen one burn up from being loose. I would say loosen them up and see what happens. You didn't put an outer seal on this axle, did you?

 

[Matt1970M35A]

When I replaced my wheel bearings I had a over hating problem. I was setting the preload correct but if you have a locking nut then you need to adjust the preload and then back the nut off one and a half turns. The locking nut pushes the first nut into the bearing causing it to have to much preload with was causing my over heating problem.

 

[budman67]

You have to set the bearing,then you have to back it off
to the right amount,usually 1 1/2 turns.

 

[RAYZER]

You have to set the bearing,then you have to back it off
to the right amount,usually 1 1/2 turns.

1/8 to 1/4.

 

[Heavy D.]

1/8 to 1/4.

Exactly what I thought! I dont have access to the TM at the moment and didnt want to post the wrong info. I started getting worried that I didnt do my own right. Thanks for the clarification Ray.

 

[DeucesWild11]

I had a similar problem with my deuce but it was the back wheels that were getting hot. I used a laser thermometer and the rear hubs were around 170 while the fronts were at around 100. I re-built the wheel cylinders and presto no more wheel dragging! After the same trip I took the temp and it was 100 all the way around.. All good now. Sounds like you have a bad wheel cylinder as well.

 

[m-35tom]

drive it with the axle drive hub off and see if it gets hot. (remove both sides)

 

[rancherrob]

We did repack all the grease but it just melted it all again after 10 minutes of driving.
Ouverson axles don't have thrust washers.
While I'm at it, I'll check the brake adjustment too. That is a strong possibility. They are new cylinders but maybe I didn't adjust things correctly.
I like the diagnostic idea of trying no hub and seeing if it still gets hot. However, won't the end of the axle just flop around then without the splined hub holding it in place?

 

[m-35tom]

no, just do not engage the front drive and it will just sit there. if the brakes were dragging, how would you get the drum off and back on? check that the wheel spins freely before you drive. apply the brakes harshly a couple of times and see that it still spins freely, you may have a bad hose on that wheel.

 

[cattlerepairman]

We did repack all the grease but it just melted it all again after 10 minutes of driving.
Ouverson axles don't have thrust washers.
While I'm at it, I'll check the brake adjustment too. That is a strong possibility. They are new cylinders but maybe I didn't adjust things correctly.
I like the diagnostic idea of trying no hub and seeing if it still gets hot. However, won't the end of the axle just flop around then without the splined hub holding it in place?

When I did the brakes on my axles for the first time and the associated bearing/seal work, hot hubs drove me nuts. I played with loosening and tightening the hub nuts for a while until I figured out that realistically only the brakes generate sufficient heat to warm up things to the point where you can't touch them. Not saying that a bearing grinding itself to pulp before failing can't get really hot.

Anyway..top and bottom brake adjustment and no more heat issues on mine.

 

[Volfe]

These are really good things to look at.. And I will check them out this week and let you all know what I find. I know that the brake is LIGHTLY rubbing when the wheel is off the ground (the way I was taught in the Army) and you can free spin it by hand and the brake does not constantly rub. I also took laser temp readings on the brake parts and none of them were as hot as the steering knuckle was. I know the steering knuckle is packed full of grease as I did it myself. What I don't know is if there is something that may have gotten flipped by some one in the past who reassembled the steering knuckle. Is there something I may not be catching? I too thought the bearings and I rebuilt them a second time and followed what the manual said. I agree with RancherRob and liking the no hub test.

 

[gringeltaube]

You might take a look at this thread & post....

Also, make sure that the seal retainer was fully seated!


G.