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New brake shoes dragging

montaillou

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Recently flipped the hubs in the rear with a friend, though really I was the one helping him as he's a professional car mechanic. While we were at it, we cleaned everything up, put in new grease and checked the brakes, putting in new seals, etc. On one side, the center (#2) axle, oil had soaked the shoes so we replaced these. On the other side of the same axle oil had run over maybe a strip about an inch wide, decided to go ahead and replace these as well even. The brake shoes on the #3 axle had lots of material so we left them alone. Based on how much material was on all the old shoes we left the front alone completely. It was a long day and we didn't properly adjust the brakes just doing a quick adjustment using the nut on the back of the hub.

When I drove it on the freeway, I couldn't get over 45 mph and when I got home there was a lot of smoke coming from the center axle. I figured that the brake shoes were too tight. My driveway is made up of uneven brick runners and not suitable to jack the truck up, so I figured I'd take it to a mechanic nearby (not my normal mechanic who's much further away) to check/adjust the brakes.

This mechanic had a **** of a time and without permission pulled the hubs apart on #2 and said the new shoes were the problem as they were too thick. I brought the old shoes and we measured them, the old were .488 inches thick and the new were .533. I was of the opinion that it was unlikely that such a small difference in thickness could be the problem especially on a truck that was designed so long ago. I've also read that the original stock thickness is .5 inches. During the discussion with the shop owner I began to lose faith with them and told them to stop working on it and put everything back to together. I suggested we agree to disagree and we parted ways after I only paid them for the work I told them to do.

Driving through town, on city streets doing no more than 30 mph I couldn't feel any indication (nor could I ever) that the brakes were dragging. And when I got back to my place from the local mechanic there was a little smoke (really hard to see) on only one side and the hub didn't even feel warm. The shop had said they did back the brakes off, on #2 all the way, so maybe this and the little driving (approx. 20 miles since hub flip) I did made the difference. I haven't been back on the freeway to check my top speed which should be 55-57 on the speedometer.

I an concerned about how the shop put the hubs back together and will probably check their work with my friend some time in the next month.

TLDR: Has anyone had a problem with new brake shoes dragging or smoking?
 
Last edited:

porkysplace

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Recently flipped the hubs in the rear with a friend, though really I was the one helping him as he's a professional car mechanic. While we were at it, we cleaned everything up, put in new grease and checked the brakes, putting in new seals, etc. On one side, the center (#2) axle, oil had soaked the shoes so we replaced these. On the other side of the same axle oil had run over maybe a strip about an inch wide, decided to go ahead and replace these as well even. The brake shoes on the #3 axle had lots of material so we left them alone. Based on how much material was on all the old shoes we left the front alone completely. It was a long day and we didn't properly adjust the brakes just doing a quick adjustment using the nut on the back of the hub.

When I drove it on the freeway, I couldn't get over 45 mph and when I got home there was a lot of smoke coming from the center axle. I figured that the brake shoes were too tight. My driveway is made up of uneven brick runners and not suitable to jack the truck up, so I figured I'd take it to a mechanic nearby (not my normal mechanic who's much further away) to check/adjust the brakes.

This mechanic had a **** of a time and without permission pulled the hubs apart on #2 and said the new shoes were the problem as they were too thick. I brought the old shoes and we measured them, the old were .488 inches thick and the new were .533. I was of the opinion that it was unlikely that such a small difference in thickness could be the problem especially on a truck that was designed so long ago. I've also read that the original stock thickness is .5 inches. During the discussion with the shop owner I began to lose faith with them and told them to stop working on it and put everything back to together. I suggested we agree to disagree and we parted ways after I only paid them for the work I told them to do.

Driving through town, on city streets doing no more than 30 mph I couldn't feel any indication (nor could I ever) that the brakes were dragging. And when I got back to my place from the local mechanic there was a little smoke (really hard to see) on only one side and the hub didn't even feel warm. The shop had said they did back the brakes off, on #2 all the way, so maybe this and the little driving (approx. 20 miles since hub flip) I did made the difference. I haven't been back on the freeway to check my top speed which should be 55-57 on the speedometer.

I an concerned about how the shop put the hubs back together and will probably check their work with my friend some time in the next month.

TLDR: Has anyone had a problem with new brake shoes dragging or smoking?
Did they adjust them with a feeler gauge through the front of the drum ?
The Tm shows the top and bottom are different like the top being .020 and the bottom .010 clearance but it seems .020 on both seems to work good .
You might want to check the TM's for sure on the specs or maybe gimpyrobb will post up This is from memory and it's been awhile since I worked on deuce brakes.

Edit ; Attached is a brake adjustment PDF.
 

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montaillou

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Did they adjust them with a feeler gauge through the front of the drum ?
I got the distinct impression that they didn't know what they were doing when I first spoke to them during the work. I sent them the TM and a youtube link explaining how to adjust the brakes after my first conversation with them. I suspect that they might have then taken the wheels off, but I don't know for sure.
 

rustystud

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Almost any "modern" shop will have problems with this truck. You need to "vett" them first before giving them your business. At my friends shop he can do such work since he collects and works on 1950's cars and is familiar with old style braking systems. Try and find such a shop near you. They are out there if you look.
 

montaillou

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They are out there if you look.
I have one of those, they know the truck and I've had them do some work on it. However, as the brakes were smoking/dragging I didn't want to go too far and was hoping a local commercial truck shop could simply adjust the brakes.
 

oboyjohn

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When ever I replaced the brake shoes, I almost always did a major and minor adjustment ( lower anchor pins and upper eccentrics) to get the recommended clearances.
 

Recovry4x4

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I hope you didn't hurt (glaze) your new shoes. The lower adjustments can be a pain but are necessary. Park it until you have time to pull the hubs and inspect. From there follow adjustments in the TM and post questions here if you need help.
 

cattlerepairman

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Watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO8Gkl9uv7c

That is really all it takes to do a brake adjustment - it is that simple.

Unless...

A problem I had (and still have, to some extent) is that the brand spanking new f**** North Star replacement brake shoes do not sit exactly the same way as the old ones. It is as if the radius they are curved is not quite right. I can adjust them so that they do not drag, apply correctly and pedal travel is ok, but it is impossible to adjust them exactly as per TM (and that really, really pains my the partial OCD I have for this).
When I loosen both adjusters (top and bottom) and then gradually adjust to the TM specs, the middle of the shoe firmly binds before the adjustment is even complete. I have to live with a slightly wider gap at the top or bottom to make it work.
 

montaillou

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Park it until you have time to pull the hubs and inspect.
Unfortunately, time is not the problem, opportunity is. Finding a place that is safe to jack the wheels and work on the truck in today's litigious and insurance society is the challenge.
 

montaillou

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Anything new on this?
I haven't really had the opportunity to pull the hubs since I got it back. It's starting to warm up here (finally) and I'm hot to build a storage building so I can store stuff I'm currently storing in the back of the deuce (like the spare engine that's taking up a significant amount of the bed). I did run some errands around town and it seemed to drive fine. I'm hoping the shop put the hubs back together right, but I'll just have to deal with that later when I have the opportunity to check their work.
 

rustystud

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I haven't really had the opportunity to pull the hubs since I got it back. It's starting to warm up here (finally) and I'm hot to build a storage building so I can store stuff I'm currently storing in the back of the deuce (like the spare engine that's taking up a significant amount of the bed). I did run some errands around town and it seemed to drive fine. I'm hoping the shop put the hubs back together right, but I'll just have to deal with that later when I have the opportunity to check their work.
Hey "Montaillou" . What part of Western Washington are you in ?
 

Big Tom

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It is definitely important that the brakes do no touch the drum , mentioned in other replies and the video link mentioned. With new shoes the top and bottom must both be set!

Big Tom
 

montaillou

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A northern neighbor then. I'm down in Woodinville. There are a few of us in this area. We need to get together this summer.
Someplace closer than Winlock...

Update: The #2 axle, passenger side was dropping oil, pulled the hub today (Saturday). It appears the shop I took it to, when they decided to pull the hub apart they didn't have the socket to remove the adjusting nuts so they used a chisel and put a divot in the metal and only hand tightened it when putting it back together *sigh*. We think it was too loose and this caused the oil leak past the inner seal. We pulled everything apart, cleaned up all the oil, most of the grease had been washed away by the oil so we repacked the bearings in grease, put grease in the hub, & put everything back together. Took it for a test drive and the oil leak appears to be gone.

The brakes are still a minor problem. The shoes just don't sit right. There's about 1.5 mm of space between the top of the shoes and the cam. A good 1 mm on one side and probably 0.5 mm on the other. Also the brake shoes themselves are just a bit over .5 inches thick (.533). All told the difference appears to be close to 2 mm. Without modifying the anchor holes or shaving down the pads I don't know what to do about this except to let the shoes wear down in time.

Before putting new brake shoes on #2 axle my top speed was 55 mph (on the dial), immediately after it was 45, now it's about 50. I'm not sure if the brake shoe problem is just a coincidence and if something else is going on. I do have a very minor fuel problem with the hydraulic head that I'm going to look closer at in a few months, some air is in the fuel line so maybe this is part of the problem.
 

rustystud

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Do all 4 cams move properly ?
I also agree about Winlock being a bit of a drive for us "Northern" brethren. It takes over an hour to just get past Seattle traffic ! My annual family reunion is held down in Winlock so I know the drive well.
 

Big Tom

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There should be space between shoe and cam either spring are stretched or the wheel cylinder has a ridge and won't let it return all the way in.

Big Tom
 
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