New Glow Plugs Installed; Starts Worse Than Ever

[gottaluvit]

Those (AC60G) and the Bosch Duraterm Inconel 601 parts. Both are self regulating and are less likely to swell (Bosch the least likely due to the shell alloy).

Again: The wait light and glow plug relay are not electrically connected!!! Just because the wait light went out doesn't mean it stopped glowing!!!

So I really can only tell by the voltmeter?

 

[DJones]

Great thread!

 

[tim292stro]

Yes, or if you have good ears the click of the relay (my ears suck, but there is still a significant "clunk" every time that thing turns on and off...). I edited my post before you quoted it and we rolled onto the next page - worth a read...

 

[gottaluvit]

Yes, or if you have good ear the click of the relay (my ears suck, but there is still a significant "clunk" every time that thing turns on and off...). I edited my post before you quoted it and we rolled onto the next page - worth a read...

Heck yeah! I like that led idea. I am definitely doing that.

 

[Skinny]

Just watch the voltmeter, it will deflect when the GP's are on. The 60g's are really made in Germany by Beru. Probably the best plug you can get for the 6.2 to avoid failures or removing issues. Unless you are getting shot at and need your Detroit diesel to start quicker, no reason to run anything other than a 60g.

 

[tim292stro]

Just watch the voltmeter, it will deflect when the GP's are on...

Note that this is only true if the glow plugs are loading down the battery (i.e., they are not already bad) - just the relay itself isn't enough to make the voltmeter or any lights change in appearance.

The multimeter gives you a window into a balanced load - if the load is unbalanced it'll tell you with distinct numbers well before it's apparent on the 24V series battery string's voltmeter.

 

[gnick]

For what its worth. I just put 8 new wellman 70's in my M1009 because its getting colder, and I haven't changed them since I've owned it. The P.O. put in a pushbutton bypass, and I could start the truck with ease after holding the button 12 seconds with the old plugs. After installing the wellman 70's it takes 20-25 seconds of heat time to get bring it up to the temp it needs to be at. It still fires right up after the 20 seconds, but its unnerving to hold the button that long - i feel like I'm frying them.

I went and looked at the old plugs and they are DRX00050's.

I then hooked up both plugs to a 12v power source and the DRX00050's heated up twice as fast. Additionally, when they were in the truck, they made my voltmeter jump a lot more when I hit the push button. The new plugs don't do much.

haven't decided whether or not I'm going to put the DRX00050's back in, try some AC 60gs, or just deal with the 20 second warm up time this winter.

 

[CUCVLOVER]

I am running 60 g plugs and I love them. I put them in a month or so ago and I have not had a issue.

 

[gottaluvit]

For what its worth. I just put 8 new wellman 70's in my M1009 because its getting colder, and I haven't changed them since I've owned it. The P.O. put in a pushbutton bypass, and I could start the truck with ease after holding the button 12 seconds with the old plugs. After installing the wellman 70's it takes 20-25 seconds of heat time to get bring it up to the temp it needs to be at. It still fires right up after the 20 seconds, but its unnerving to hold the button that long - i feel like I'm frying them.

I went and looked at the old plugs and they are DRX00050's.

I then hooked up both plugs to a 12v power source and the DRX00050's heated up twice as fast. Additionally, when they were in the truck, they made my voltmeter jump a lot more when I hit the push button. The new plugs don't do much.

haven't decided whether or not I'm going to put the DRX00050's back in, try some AC 60gs, or just deal with the 20 second warm up time this winter.

Looked them up and Summit sells them for $8/ea. Too late for me this go 'round as I already ordered the 60Gs. Good info though. Was any of them swollen?

 

[gottaluvit]

I am running 60 g plugs and I love them. I put them in a month or so ago and I have not had a issue.

What was in your truck before you put the 60Gs in? Were any swollen?

 

[CUCVLOVER]

What was in your truck before you put the 60Gs in? Were any swollen?

It had a very old set of 13 g plugs. Not really any swelling just lots of carbon on a couple plugs. I just kept turning them until they came out.

 

[gottaluvit]

It had a very old set of 13 g plugs. Not really any swelling just lots of carbon on a couple plugs. I just kept turning them until they came out.

Must be nice. Here's what my stuck ones looked like.

I removed the injectors and got one out broken GP out with hemostats and two with a strong magnet. Then I used a vacuum with a small tip to draw out any pieces of ceramic or metal. Gotta wait on a trip to parts store to get anti-seize before reinstalling the injectors. Glow plugs should arrive Saturday.

 

[CUCVLOVER]

It was kind of nice. I can tell you at first it was a little worrying when the first plug didn't want to come out but Im glad it didn't swell

 

[cucvrus]

Do as you like. But I would replace the copper sealing washers on the bottom of the nozzles when you reinstall. That's just me. Do as you like. it is a few dollars for a set of 8 and you can have the extras around for the next nozzle you pull.

 

[cucvrus]

I only do about three second cranks of the starter. Question is, why on earth would it be worse with brand new glow plugs?

I was reading over this thread again. If you only crank it over for 3 seconds and you started the glow plug process over 7 times in a row. That would really do a number on the glow plugs heat wise. Overheating is the killer of glow plugs. I feel I have a perfect running CUCV M1009 the Mule and if I would only crank it for 3 seconds it may not start every time. That is just a thought. I have had the same AC delco's 13 G in the same trucks for 5 years without any issues. But if i let someone borrow my truck for a week or longer it seems that it needs glow plugs soon after I get it back. I hear them start cranking as soon as they get in. It is habit. And I came from an age when you cranked vehicles a while when they were cold and that was normal operating procedure. I think the CUCV falls in that category. Crank it for 10 seconds would be a good rule then give the starter a rest for 30 seconds and hit it again. With the preglow, Crank Glow and after glow it should start if everything else is working as designed. I have my CUCV cranked and started before you can hear the starter engage at some times. It needs to crank to get started cold. Good Luck.

 

[gottaluvit]

I only do about three second cranks of the starter. Question is, why on earth would it be worse with brand new glow plugs?

I was reading over this thread again. If you only crank it over for 3 seconds and you started the glow plug process over 7 times in a row. That would really do a number on the glow plugs heat wise. Overheating is the killer of glow plugs. I feel I have a perfect running CUCV M1009 the Mule and if I would only crank it for 3 seconds it may not start every time. That is just a thought. I have had the same AC delco's 13 G in the same trucks for 5 years without any issues. But if i let someone borrow my truck for a week or longer it seems that it needs glow plugs soon after I get it back. I hear them start cranking as soon as they get in. It is habit. And I came from an age when you cranked vehicles a while when they were cold and that was normal operating procedure. I think the CUCV falls in that category. Crank it for 10 seconds would be a good rule then give the starter a rest for 30 seconds and hit it again. With the preglow, Crank Glow and after glow it should start if everything else is working as designed. I have my CUCV cranked and started before you can hear the starter engage at some times. It needs to crank to get started cold. Good Luck.

That makes a lot of sense there! I am new to diesels so I still am stuck in gasser mode. The carb gassers I have I just pump a couple times when cold and bump the key and if not started in a week or so I pump the heck out of it first. EFI I just bump no matter. My 5 ton has started on bumps all but cold mornings and then its about a five second crank to get it going. I will begin starting the CUCV as you say. It really makes sense now that I envision what is happening. When she's warm she starts with a bump. If the wait light comes on I had been letting it go out but right after putting the 13Gs in I did start it, shut it down, start it, shut it down, and then it took longer to start. No wonder! I fried them doing that. Thank you!

 

[Hasdrubal]

"Crank it for 10 seconds would be a good rule". First off, CUCRUS, please don't get me wrong. You're a knowledgeable guy, I am not slagging you... but If I had to crank my 6.2 for 10 seconds, well there's something wrong with it. Perhaps because I use AC60's on a manual push button and give it 17 seconds when its cold out, but my 6.2 always fires within 2-3 seconds when its cold out, because batteries are at reduced amps and it cranks slower. In the summer it fires immediately. 10 seconds cranking for me indicates not enough glow time.

 

[tim292stro]

You should be able to crank safely up to 10-20 seconds, then rest (off) for 30-60 seconds to let the motor cool down and for the battery chemical reaction to catch up.

It also goes without saying, but merritts mention - you should have nothing switched "on" other than the glow plugs and the starter while attempting to start. No interior or exterior lights, no fans, no wipers, no radio(s)... Extra loads rob current and voltage from a cold battery that needs to go to the starter and glow plugs.

Are you familiar with diesel fuel gelling as a problem?


My routine/process for starting a CUCV is thus:

1. Make sure parking brake is set
2. Make sure shifter is in park
3. Seat belt on (yeah, even if I don't PLAN to move it - something could still happen right?)
4. Turn key to Run, ensure fuel is available on gauge (if gauge non-functional fix)
5. Either wait for WAIT light to extinguish or apply the proper manual glow (depending on truck condition)
6. Turn key to start, hold until either:
   • Engine turns over and you can hear the starter exceed the crank revs (sounds like: whiiIIIIZZZZzz....), then release key
   • Engine does not start within 20 seconds - release key (turn off), double check fuel prime or fuel temperature (potential gelling if cold) - resolve any issues, wait until 1 minute after releasing key to return to step 5
7. Wait 1 minute before preparing to move to allow oil pressure to build in farthest reaches of the oil galleys.
8. Service/Blackout switch to correct mode
9. Shift into required gear
10. Apply service brakes
11. Press on parking brake and pull the release handle, allowing the parking brake to slowly release, remove foot from parking brake pedal and give the release handle one more pull to make sure it's all the way off
    • I don't like stuff to smack into other stuff, treating things gentle all the time leads to longer service lives
12. Check mirrors of hazards, look around for hazards not in the mirrors, release service brake when clear to drive off.

Seems like a lot when you write it all down, but you'd be surprised how quickly it falls into routine - and that minute or so goes by very quickly.

 

[Skinny]

So I have a fairly new IP, GP's, and batteries. I jump in, key on, wait light out, blip the key and it fires up everytime. I don't think I've ever held the key to the start position more than 2-3 seconds even in the coldest weather (follow the throttle pedal according to the visor). Your mileage may vary but all of that sounds excessive to me.

 

[cucvrus]

Tell us that when it is -10 and you don't have a block heater. I was referring to a general rule 12 months out of the year in all weather. The fact that they start is all I care about. I never have an issue. When it is real cold 10 - -15 I save the poor old diesel CUCV the pain and suffering and drive my newer truck. Gives us both a break. I have nothing to prove and I don't need to hear that heavy knocking and smoking. But if I really do need it and I feel the need. Magic spray in a can works every time. Not spray painting the inside of the intake with it. But just a pinch will do the job. Works best with 2 people. 1 cranking the engine over after the wait light is off and the other administering the dose. That is me administering the Evil Angel of Ether. Not often but at times it is an absolute must.