new guy with a mep 005a

[Rickety Bones]

ok, well I started to take it apart, and could not get the barrel off the housing, I think for this one im gonna send it in for a rebuild, found a guy on ebay that rebuilds them for 320.00

also the glass ball inside the small brass fitting on the top of the IP is their to keep positive pressure in the pump, if you remove it, it will cause cavitation inside the pump which will cause less fuel to be delivered to the engine causing a lean condition, if anyone has removed this part I would suggest replacing it.

may be the admins might want to make this sticky

rick

Thanks for everyone's help

 

[leedawg]

ok, well I started to take it apart, and could not get the barrel off the housing, I think for this one im gonna send it in for a rebuild, found a guy on ebay that rebuilds them for 320.00

also the glass ball inside the small brass fitting on the top of the IP is their to keep positive pressure in the pump, if you remove it, it will cause cavitation inside the pump which will cause less fuel to be delivered to the engine causing a lean condition, if anyone has removed this part I would suggest replacing it.

may be the admins might want to make this sticky

rick

Thanks for everyone's help

Mind putting up the link to the guy that rebuilds them for 320

Would be appreciated thanks.

 

[PeterD]

...
also the glass ball inside the small brass fitting on the top of the IP is their to keep positive pressure in the pump, if you remove it, it will cause cavitation inside the pump which will cause less fuel to be delivered to the engine causing a lean condition, if anyone has removed this part I would suggest replacing it.
...

Can you cite an authoritative reference for the above statement(s)? For the record, a diesel engine can't "run lean".

 

[319]

ok, well I started to take it apart, and could not get the barrel off the housing, I think for this one im gonna send it in for a rebuild, found a guy on ebay that rebuilds them for 320.00

also the glass ball inside the small brass fitting on the top of the IP is their to keep positive pressure in the pump, if you remove it, it will cause cavitation inside the pump which will cause less fuel to be delivered to the engine causing a lean condition, if anyone has removed this part I would suggest replacing it.

may be the admins might want to make this sticky

rick

Thanks for everyone's help

Yes, but if it's plugged it will not run at all. At least the unit can be used until the check valve is replaced, and replacing it is on my list of fun things to do to.

 

[Rickety Bones]

I have a diesel mech I have used for 30+ years, hes 60 years old himself, Its what he told me. guess he could be wrong.
and his exact words were " not get enough fuel " I changed that to lean, so that one is my fault. sorry

Im making sure mine is in, im not gonna try to second guess him.

here is the link for the guy I found to rebuild pumps

Roosa Master / Stanadyne DB Diesel Injection Pump | eBay

 

[PeterD]

I have a diesel mech I have used for 30+ years, hes 60 years old himself, Its what he told me. guess he could be wrong.
and his exact words were " not get enough fuel " I changed that to lean, so that one is my fault. sorry
...http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roosa-Maste...=821756984392778993&pid=100015&prg=1006&rk=1&

I have been working with the Stanadyne (Rooster) pumps for many years as well, and this is the first I've ever heard of this 'problem.' My understanding for the check ball is that because the day tank gravity feed being higher than the injection pump, and the injectors being higher, this check valve (ball) prevents fuel in the fuel return from flowing back into the pump when the engine is shut off.

If a diesel engine doesn't get enough fuel, the worst that can happen is that it has less power. So were your friend's advice to be true, the worst might be that it wouldn't not generate specified current/watts, but certainly won't damage the pump.

 

[Rickety Bones]

I am certainly no expert , and I have never worked on anything diesel, ever, so I can only repeat what I was told. what is fact, what is fiction, one can only guess.

the theory seems logical to me, parts spinning inside a closed container can cavatate
, and increasing the pressure would help keep this to a minim.

also I thought is was a check valve also, mine had a small bypass hole in it, about 1/32 hole allowing some bypass

but again, just a theory

 

[leedawg]

I Think its there just to keep the fuel going into the day tank and not into the top of the injection pump from the fuel pumps.

If you notice the return line to the day tank actually T's into the the fuel line right after the solenoid from the fuel pumps. Well when the solenoid opens to let more fuel into the day tank from the fuel pumps it sends fuel back down that return line and thus into the top of the fuel pump. I have not noticed any problems i the unit that I took the check valve out of and as rick said I noticed that mine has a small hole on the side of the ball seat to allow fuel to get by it as well.

Im not to worried about it being there unit is putting out plenty of power and the motor is running well, so I have no idea what the purpose of that valve was really other than to get clogged up with stuff and shut the whole thing down.

 

[Rickety Bones]

I Think its there just to keep the fuel going into the day tank and not into the top of the injection pump from the fuel pumps.

If you notice the return line to the day tank actually T's into the the fuel line right after the solenoid from the fuel pumps. Well when the solenoid opens to let more fuel into the day tank from the fuel pumps it sends fuel back down that return line and thus into the top of the fuel pump. I have not noticed any problems i the unit that I took the check valve out of and as rick said I noticed that mine has a small hole on the side of the ball seat to allow fuel to get by it as well.

Im not to worried about it being there unit is putting out plenty of power and the motor is running well, so I have no idea what the purpose of that valve was really other than to get clogged up with stuff and shut the whole thing down.

Yea i hear ya leedawg,

my guy says that the small oraface keeps just a couple of pounds of pressure in the low pressure side of the pump housing, and that the couple of pounds helps prevent cavitation, he said if you remove it the motor will still run but you WILL get very small air bubbles in the high side of the fuel lines going to the injectors and that COULD possibly cause erratic engine operation.

He said that's the way the pump was originally designed to work, and I personally do not want to try and second guess hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars of engineering from people way smarter than me.

Just my opinion, guess there are a thousand ways to skin a cat.

sending off the pump today to the guy on ebay, he also said worst case scenario, if the pump was totally shot and new reman would be 530$

To me that's not a bad deal.

anyways, I will post my results and about 2 weeks, have a good one.

 

[leedawg]

I sent my pump off today as well to the ebay guy along with all six injectors for him to pop test for me. Post office said it would be there on Thursday so we will see what they have to say. I talked to a guy named Jeff there at badger Diesel. He was a man of little words but I could not beat the price he said they would call when the looked at the pump and give me an estimate on it. We will both find out I guess how it turns out.

 

[319]

I sent my pump off today as well to the ebay guy along with all six injectors for him to pop test for me. Post office said it would be there on Thursday so we will see what they have to say. I talked to a guy named Jeff there at badger Diesel. He was a man of little words but I could not beat the price he said they would call when the looked at the pump and give me an estimate on it. We will both find out I guess how it turns out.

Next time you talk to him, ask him about those check valves, their intended purpose and affects on the engine and or performance without one.

 

[leedawg]

Next time you talk to him, ask him about those check valves, their intended purpose and affects on the engine and or performance without one.

Ill try to remember to do that. I removed the check valve on mine and mine runs great without it so not sure what to say about this cavitating thing. Dose not seem to be a problem, infact mine was not running great until I removed the check valve and now it does run great and I just finally got all the fuel line leaks squared away I really dont want to tear the T back off to replace the check valve. On the other set that I sent the injector pump in on I will probably put the check valve in since it should not be getting clogged by anything due to the fact that there will be all new parts and they just went through it.

WE will see though.

 

[PeterD]

Well, I spent a few minutes of engineering time and figured out what the check ball really seems to do. The observation that the fuel return line T's into the outlet of the solenoid is correct (of course) and that line is under some positive pressure. Fuel from that solenoid is only partially filtered (passes the water separator/strainer and the first filter.) The final filter is gravity feed from the day tank to feed the injection pump. Without the check valve (the glass ball thingie) the partially filtered fuel from the solenoid can be introduced into the injection pump.

The check valve (glass ball) simply prevents back feeding of the injection pump from the fuel pump feed. I do not think that there is any issue with cavitation (the injection pump has a 'sump' that remains full of fuel during normal operation...) or any horrible other effects. The worst thing is that without the check valve one does risk (slightly) contamination from partially filtered fuel. I think that risk is minimal.

 

[Rickety Bones]

Leedawg,

I removed the exhaust manifold to get to my injectors and have been having trouble finding new ones, did you do the same?

if you find a part number for new exhaust gaskets please let me know

Thanks

 

[PeterD]

Leedawg,

I removed the exhaust manifold to get to my injectors and have been having trouble finding new ones, did you do the same?

if you find a part number for new exhaust gaskets please let me know

Thanks

New injectors, new manifold, or new studs?

Gaskets... Contact Linda Bero at hercules_parts@yahoo.com, they have all the parts you will need for the Hercules engines. I'm sure they have injectors too, if you should need them. The exhaust flange to muffler gasket is hard to find, I made my own from exhaust manifold gasket material.

 

[Rickety Bones]

I am looking for the exhaust manifold gaskets ( 6 )

Thanks I will email her

 

[leedawg]

Leedawg,

I removed the exhaust manifold to get to my injectors and have been having trouble finding new ones, did you do the same?

if you find a part number for new exhaust gaskets please let me know

Thanks

That exactly why i did not remove the manifold. I was going to then thought about it for a moment and decided tracking down new gaskets would be a pain in the ass. So I just simply removed all the injection lines and just took out the two bolts on either side of each injector put an inch and quarter socket on the top of the injector and wiggled it back and forth and put a large flat head screwdriver under the flange of the injector and applied upward pressure with the screw driver as I twisted it back and forth and they popped right out.

Mine were looking pretty bad when I pulled them but the tips dont look to bad the important part. THe shaft that goes in the hole was all rusted on all six of mine did yours look a little rough?

Lee

 

[leedawg]

Well, I spent a few minutes of engineering time and figured out what the check ball really seems to do. The observation that the fuel return line T's into the outlet of the solenoid is correct (of course) and that line is under some positive pressure. Fuel from that solenoid is only partially filtered (passes the water separator/strainer and the first filter.) The final filter is gravity feed from the day tank to feed the injection pump. Without the check valve (the glass ball thingie) the partially filtered fuel from the solenoid can be introduced into the injection pump.

The check valve (glass ball) simply prevents back feeding of the injection pump from the fuel pump feed. I do not think that there is any issue with cavitation (the injection pump has a 'sump' that remains full of fuel during normal operation...) or any horrible other effects. The worst thing is that without the check valve one does risk (slightly) contamination from partially filtered fuel. I think that risk is minimal.

Peter I think you are 100% right that is sort of what I figured it was for as well. TO stop fuel from the first set of filters entering the injector pump sump when there is positive pressure from the fuel pumps on it. As I said mine runs great now that I removed the whole check valve assembly.

 

[Rickety Bones]

Ok , talked to another diesel guy today about the ball valve and return lines on the mep005,

and I am just repeating the info that I got, so take the info for what it's worth

ok, the IP, pumps more fuel than is needed.

the excess fuel is returned to the day tank via the ball valve keeping a small amount of residual pressure in the top of the housing to prevent cavitation under operating RPM.

when the generator is shut off, the 24v electric solenoid ( or manual lever ) opens a valve venting high pressure from the injection lines thus cutting off fuel to the engine, this excess fuel is returned to the day tank via the return line as the motor is slowing down in rpm and eventually stopping.

I also asked what the small 1/8" lines from the injectors were for, he said kinda the same thing excess fuel not used by injectors is returned to the day tank this way.

I asked if the 5/16 return line should flow fuel from the day tank to the top of IP, he said it's not supposed to as that fuel does not go thru the last filter before IP.

he also said that when they " Hot Rod " IP's, the make the orifice even smaller to keep a higher residual pressure inside the pump because they really spin the pumps at a much higher RPM to gain more pressure.

I also asked about the amount of flow coming from the gravity day tank, I asked if that was enough, he said when the motor is running that the IP pump causes a suction on that line and cautioned me if I had to replace it to make sure I used non-collapsible hose. he said that they circulate alot more fuel thru the pump than is needed by the motor to help it keep cool and not overheat.

and again, this is the info I got, and I am not saying this info is correct in any way, I'm just passing along what he told me.

Rick

 

[leedawg]

So Just talked to Badger Diesel today. They told me they are going to need to rebuild the injectors for my set in addition to the pump. They stated that the injectors are sticking and need to be rebuilt. 55 dollars an injector does not seem to bad. Any way shipping it all tomorrow so hopefully by the end of the week it will all show up.

Lee