Newbie needs help and advice

[dragon1124]

Hello all, I am new to owning a cucv. It is an 84 blazer. The day after I drove it home, it died out on me, had to get a tow and replace the starter. After the starter was replaced, I drove it home, and it died out again. Found out both batteries and both alternators were bad. I figured I got stiffed on the starter, not a big deal since I have a new starter, 2 new alternators and 2 new batteries. My mechanic got her started after the alternators and batteries were installed, called me and told me she was ready. I am completely dumb founded with this cucv. I went and picked it up at the mechanic, it started pretty decently. Drove it home, let it sit a couple hours and when I left for work it hesitated for a few cranks. It started after I held the gas pedal down for about a minute. I feel dumb since flipping down the visor I notice the instructions for starting a diesel. <My first diesel> I just hope the fuel pump isnt bad since I dropped enough into this vehicle already.

Also I found some great articles, diagrams and repair things in the TM section. This is where I need help and advise. The starter is 24v and as far as I know, noone messed with the electrical system. I noticed in both the instructions for converting 24v to 12v and also a battery wiring diagram that there is supposed to be a jumper that goes from the positive on the front battery to the negative on the back battery. I looked under my hood and there is no jumper. I have also read that this jumper is needed to fully make use of the alternators and the charging system.

I'm not an expert, I am a newbie.<dumb question> Wouldnt jumping a positive to a negative short out the system? And if not, can I just buy a jumper with 2 eye rings and hook the jumper up myself? Any help would be greatly appreciated since I enjoy driving this cucv and would hate to have to sell it so close to buying it.

 

[Warthog]

Welcome to the CUCV Conumdrum.

The CUCVs where designed to play with the other Military Vehicles so they took a 12volt truck and added another 12 volts for a 24v total. You make 24v by jumpering two 12v batteries in series.

Most of the truck runs on 12 volts fed from the front battery. On a stock system, the starter, glowplugs and military radios run on 24v and use both batteries.

The "jumper" between the two batteries is a large red 2 gauge wire.

One of the many things to remember about CUCVs - before you start the truck, both GEN lights must be working in order for the charging system to work. No light, no charging.

Here is a picture of a M1009 with replacement batteries.

 

[mistaken1]

My mechanic got her started after the alternators and batteries were installed, called me and told me she was ready. I am completely dumb founded with this cucv. I went and picked it up at the mechanic, it started pretty decently. Drove it home, let it sit a couple hours and when I left for work it hesitated for a few cranks. It started after I held the gas pedal down for about a minute. I feel dumb since flipping down the visor I notice the instructions for starting a diesel. <My first diesel> I just hope the fuel pump isnt bad since I dropped enough into this vehicle already.

Also I found some great articles, diagrams and repair things in the TM section. This is where I need help and advise. The starter is 24v and as far as I know, noone messed with the electrical system. I noticed in both the instructions for converting 24v to 12v and also a battery wiring diagram that there is supposed to be a jumper that goes from the positive on the front battery to the negative on the back battery. I looked under my hood and there is no jumper. I have also read that this jumper is needed to fully make use of the alternators and the charging system.

I'm not an expert, I am a newbie.<dumb question> Wouldnt jumping a positive to a negative short out the system? And if not, can I just buy a jumper with 2 eye rings and hook the jumper up myself? Any help would be greatly appreciated since I enjoy driving this cucv and would hate to have to sell it so close to buying it.

If there is no connection between the front positive and rear negative then you do not have 24V. Sounds like your system has been configured for 12V either before you bought or by your mechanic.

Being the cynical person that I am I suspect your mechanic installed two standard grounded case alternators and had to leave wires off to keep the sparks under control. Not sure what he did to get voltage to the starter but I believe that you need to get the TM and trace out the wires.

Print the wiring diagrams and make redline changes on the drawing to match what you find tracing wires. You can scan or take a clear digital photo of the redline drawings and post so that people who want to help can see what you have to work with. (like which wires are not connected)

 

[tlucca]

Good advice.

 

[dragon1124]

Thanks for the info everyone. The electrical was indeed a hack job. The mechanic it was towed to re-wired the batteries in parallel instead of series. I for sure am doubting the starter I bought was indeed a 24v. I know, I'm an idiot for not checking, I was at work when it was installed along with the batteries. I need to have someone around Chicago here drop the starter and check to see if it's 24v or 12v <If anyone knows anyone please let me know> Pics will be soon, I have to get my memory card transferred to my computer.

If the starter is indeed 12v even though it's not recommended by some members here, I'll finish the conversion. If it's 24v <which is doubtful now>I have to find someone that knows about the cucv electrical around me to re-wire it back to series.
My mechanic that I should have taken it to in the first place tried to re-wire it to series and couldnt finish it since once all connected, the horn would blare constantly. I know I messed up and rushed to get this back on the road.

As for the alternators, they were done by my mechanic, which just rebuilt the alternators already installed, and still have the isolated ground. I found out also that both alternators installed are 108 amps each.

I tried to get in contact with this "hack mechanic" and he never returns calls, never answers the phone, and every time I drive back to his shop its closed, no matter what day or time. That's how I know for sure I got stiffed. Live and Learn.

 

[m16ty]

This thread is a reminder of something I learned long ago. There are lots of good, well meaning automotive mechanics around but unless they know about MVs they can really screw things up.

 

[Jonas]

Its really easy to drop the starter yourself. 2 bolts under it and 1 on the back bracket (if it still has it, mine dont). If i remember correct the bolts are size 15 on a wrench.

You can also really easy check how much power you have down at the starter without taking it down with a multimeter, i recomend getting one if you dont have, it really helps you find your way around the electric system in this truck.

The solenoid on the starter should have 1 big cable and 1 small. If your using a multimeter put the red pin where the big cable is connected to the starter and put the black one into some bare metall on the chassis. Now look at the multimeter and there should be either ~12 or ~24.

Looks something like this

http://i37.tinypic.com/egwknk.jpg

 

[dragon1124]

Hey all once again thanks for the info and help. Unfortunatly today I found out that the starter installed was a 12v starter for sure. Autozone could finally tell me that they sold me a 12v starter after I said I'm going to call my lawyer on both them and the mechanic. <which is still at large> I ran out of money trying to get this thing fixed and I cant afford a new starter for awhile now, so I am just going to finish the conversion to 12v.

I know it's not recommended and once I do that, in the tech section that if I do convert it, not to expect too muchhelp from users. I guess the good that came out of this is that the vehicle is up and running now, and I can at least drive it to and from work. The bad thing is, if I sell it as a 12v conversion noone would be interested <imo> since it's usually always better to keep things the way they are meant to be.

 

[mistaken1]

Having a working truck is a good thing. You can convert back when time and money allows.

If the truck is well maintained it will retain value.

 

[davidkroberts]

hold the phone champ you can keep the system 24v and have a 12v starter. Look under the CUCV FAQ page in the forum. There is an article that tells how to wire a 12v starter to the stock system and keep everything else working normally. You just change one wire if i remember correctly.

 

[davidkroberts]

Copies and pasted from the article

Starter
24V but can be changed to 12V with one change of a wire. All that has to be done is move the wire that goes to the starter (big red one) off the junction block on the fire wall and moved to the + side of the first battery. This should be done only if a 24V replacement can not be found. With the 24V you have the power of both batteries, with the 12V only the first battery.

 

[dragon1124]

I dont know how i missed that while going through everything. At least I know I can at least wire the batteries back into series. I got the wiring diagrams for the series printed out and I am ready to go. Only one drawback it's about ready to storm out and I'm not a rain worker, no garage just a drive port.

I thank everyone that helped me out, and I really appreciate it. This will save me time of removing, splicing wires, and removing the alternator, and keep it all stock save the starter. ........Only one question I have since I didnt see it with that faq How long will this tempory fix work until I can get a true 24v starter?

 

[davidkroberts]

it will work fine the issue was just starting it off one battery instead of two. The 24v is a stronger system but the 12v will work just fine. its what the civ vehicles come with anyway.

 

[dragon1124]

Thanks for the advice again.

I'll post in here again instead of making a new post.
Today I re-wired everything back to 24v except putting the starter wire on the front battery until I can get the actual 24v starter installed instead of the 12v one.
After the re-wire I got my volt meter back functioning and it's in the green.

Only a couple more problems remain <hopefully> until this m1009 is back to being full. One thing is the gen 2 light doesn't come on now. I think it might just be the light needs to be replaced as the volt meter is in the green as the cucv is running. Tests show that while she's off, the batteries are at a 12.4v and while she's running, both batteries are 14.4v

Also the glow plug "wait" light isnt working anymore either. The glow plug card from the inside of the cab appears in good shape compared to pictures I have found on the internet. Also the relay that's on the fire wall does kick on and off as through a normal cycle. Could this be an indicator that the actual glow plugs themselves are bad? I will check the TMs also for some more troubleshooting information.

And the final thing I am experiencing is hard starts. I believe this could be caused by a dirty fuel filter and/or the injectors. I will be studying the TMs alot lol. She will crank over, and sometimes start itself on the 2nd or 3rd crank. After the 3rd crank it wont start, I have to spray some wd40 into the air intake, and it'll crank right over. I use the wd40 as I read on numerous threads on the interned that ether is very very bad to use. Is wd40 actually a good choice over ether?

Any advice and/or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. I will be going over the TMs and hopefully get all these bugs worked out. Once again thank you everyone that has given advice in my previous posts, and thanks in advance for future help/suggestions i might need. Everyone here has been very helpful.