NHC-250 injection pump woes - PT pump in ruins

[OPCOM]

That is not all. The engine will not crank. It is either a cable end, the starter solenoid, or the starter.

I will determine which, by checking voltages during attempts to crank, and will fix it myself or have a reputable shop fix it and the bad shop pay it.

That is one of the things I may demand when I return there after further research to make the complaint and kindly suggest their best course of action.

I can not trust them with the truck again, and it is likely the truck could be sabotaged out of vengeance if left there after I complain, because I know they are not going to like it, and the foreman is going to be really unhappy having to explain this. A few grains of sand, and a couple K miles.. or a hundred other slow deaths.

I distrust them that much at this point, and after charging $800 more labor than quoted (I can prove it), plus what seems to be a gross overcharge on the pump, I still need this truck cranking -fast- like it was before it went into their "care" and I need this to be at no cost to me. Several people can attest to how it cranked before.

The funny thing about all this, I have never been cheated there before, and I always dealth with a manager in the office with a desk. Now deal with the shop foreman - watch out don't drop the soap! Basta!

 

[WillWagner]

If a starting system is cranked long enough to drain batteries to the dead point, the starter contacts can melt in the solenoid. Most HD starters have overcrank protection built into them now. If it was over cranked, the heat generated could have melted soldered cable connections too. Take pics OPCOM, they will be your best evidence.

 

[OPCOM]

I will be testing it this weekend. I bought a 500 amp load tester.

 

[OPCOM]

The results of the tests: The starter solenoid contacts are bad. When acivated, it engages the gears but does not supply adequate power to the starter. When the war emergency contacts are engaged, the truck starts right away. I need a solenoid. In case anyone has one lying around they don't want..

I probably cannot lay this at the feet of the shop. I will have to fix it myself. I hope I do not have to remove the starter. I can reach it through the access panel under the fender.

But I can ask where the little adapter sleeve for the tach cable is.

The cable end is round with a "key" stamped on it. There is supposed to be some kind of thing over this to engage the hole in the pump tach drive fitting. It is missing. I suppose by now it is very, very lost. Cummins said, "you want what??"

 

[doghead]

After removing and replacing the solenoid, to properly set the bendix throw, you need to remove the starter. The gear needs a small gap (like .020")between it and the housing, when engaged.

 

[OPCOM]

How is that done? Is there a stop-screw or something? Is there a TM on it?

 

[WillWagner]

Post a pic of the tach cable end and the pump so I can see what you have.

 

[Irv]

I have a spare pump for the NHC250 if someone needs one. PM me. Irv.

 

[doghead]

How is that done? Is there a stop-screw or something? Is there a TM on it?

Yes, the adjustment is covered in the TM. There are two TM (depending on which starter you have). Take a look at TM9-2920-248-35 and TM2920-243-34.

Here's a picture from the TM, showing the adjustment specification.

 

[cranetruck]

If the solenoid has been questionable for some time, it would be a good idea to remove the starter and check the pinion for wear (as a result from not engaging the ring gear 100%).

 

[OPCOM]

Here are the pump tach fitting and cable images. Despite the similar shape of the cable end and the pump socket, the end is too small in diameter by itself to be engaged. In the pump picture, I partly uscrewed the nut there. It would normally be screwed down correctly.

It was 70 deg yesterday and fair. It is snowing (I saw a few flakes while taking these pics just now) and wind chill is 20 deg today. Love Texas.

Well it looks like the starter will have to come out to do that job right.

 

[Hammer]

Pull the starter, it is easier that way! I tried to mess with the solenoid with it on the starter still in the truck, not worth the time!

As for the tach cable, the part on the top of the IP is correct. If anything is wrong, you might have the wrong tach cable end.
But on mine, I just squashed out that flat spade part, and it engaged the drive part from the IP part, and it has been working fine since then.
Appeared that mine was worn down on the round side rather then the flat side, and it was just enough so it wouldn't properly engaged if I tightened the thing down.

 

[OPCOM]

Well it is the same tach cable as before and it worked before. The Cummins guy said there is an unobtanium piece that goes on the end of the cable, but I suppose I can fiddle with it. I have some high temperature dielectric tape that might go one turn on that and do the job.

 

[Hammer]

I doubt the tape would really work for this, just squashing the whole thing some so the flat part sticks out further would probably do the trick.
Take a look at the side opposite of the flat blade, is it worn down? That is what mine was, and it was an easy fix (that took me a while to figure out....)

 

[WillWagner]

You have all the stuff you need there. I don't remember if there was a smaller drive. Let me do some checking on Monday. The stealer didn't notice that the tach wasn't working after the repair? Nice.

 

[OPCOM]

Did not notice or did not care. you pick.

I have realy scrutinized the invoice and analyzed it. There is an ongoing discussion about the labor at the present time. The magnitude of the labor charge error seems to be $1,017.36

Has anyone ever picked something up and charged it and then later found mistakes on the bill? I am glad it is on a charge (not credit or debit) card and was not paid by check.

I'm doing the starter tomorrow and then I will feel better about the truck.

Why does my butt hurt?

 

[Rene M]

Hey when i got my 5 ton i got a spare tach cable and i also have a spare inj pump with the drive. " ****, it came with a spare multi fuel engine, tran's radiator etc, no clue what to do with then?"
And i will be up in your neck of the woods next weekend on my way to pick up Hemtt rims?

I have a great hate for crooked fuel shops.. i would like to know the name of this shop to keep my customers away from it!
If some one can tell me the delco # " mt 35 mt 42 etc"on the nhc 250. i may have a reman starter down here. I get free-bees from time to time.

 

[OPCOM]

wow- look me up in south dallas! PM sent..

It is M800 series stuff?

I am not done with the investigation. I will say this: If I am not satisfied by whatever bill adjustments and explanations for costs they present regarding this surprising business, I will say who it is, and out of fairness I will post the invoice and repeat their explanation so that it can be judged fairly. words and documents speak for themselves.

 

[Rene M]

wow- look me up in south dallas! PM sent..

It is M800 series stuff?

I am not done with the investigation. I will say this: If I am not satisfied by whatever bill adjustments and explanations for costs they present regarding this surprising business, I will say who it is, and out of fairness I will post the invoice and repeat their explanation so that it can be judged fairly. words and documents speak for themselves.

By way of example:
M&D fuel ... bill's me $500-$800 for a complete ntc 350-400 reman pump exchange or rebuild what i bring them.
book labor is between 2.5-4.0 hours @ $98 per hour ( there is no listing for am general) @ my shop.....
$1600??????? For a pump is just off the chart !!!!!!!!! I can get OEM New form Cummins over the counter with no discount for less.

 

[jwaller]

I would say if you charged it then threten the shop that you will do a chargeback for the whole amount and worry about settling it later. or they can make it right.