Non-military 20' Trailer Strengthening Advice

[Jbulach]

Couple pictures as I worked on it this weekend. I took off the old axle hangers, and started on the front A-frame. I got a bunch of parts today in the mail so I can't wait to start using new stuff.


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Wow, look at those spring hangers!!! Glad to see those will be going away!

 

[DanM7890]

Wow, look at those spring hangers!!! Glad to see those will be going away!

HAHA you and I both. I will say they look bad, but they were a PITA to take off. Whoever welded the trailer welded them on good, and with extra steel. The reason for the length is so the tires won't rub on the wood decking they had. With the frame I'm adding I'll be using normal hangers.

 

[DanM7890]

I have been working hard at this thing and inally got the A-frame off. Only took about a thousand cut off wheels.

 

[The FLU farm]

Alright, I'm amazed. You could say that I have a trailer fetish, having lots of them and like building, modifying, and towing them.
But what I don't understand here is why you're spending so much time on something that apparently requires more money just in material, axles, springs, etc. than what a new trailer would cost.
Again, I like building things and modify almost everything I get my hands on, but this one I can't quite comprehend.

 

[DanM7890]

A new 7k deckover is 3k locally. I'll have less than half when I'm done with it and it's exactly the way I want it. The other thing is I built it myself, and there's something to be said about that.

 

[The FLU farm]

A new 7k deckover is 3k locally. I'll have less than half when I'm done with it and it's exactly the way I want it. The other thing is I built it myself, and there's something to be said about that.

Alright, didn't realize that they were so pricey in your neck of the woods, Dan.
I most definitely can relate to the having built-it-myself feeling, which is worth a lot in itself. But when you're only reusing the springs (if I understand things correctly), I thought you'd be time and money ahead by buying a new one, or by buying the steel and parts and start fresh.
Or maybe I'm just getting old, feeling that it's nicer to work with clean metal?

 

[m16ty]

As for weight placement, a good rule of thumb is 60% to the front and 40% to the back. You can certainly get by with a little more or less than that but don't get anywhere close to 50/50 or the trailer will fishtail. When I was picking up a lot of M105s, I'd regularly pull two at a time, one behind the other. When you attached them double, you'd end up with the front trailer being almost balanced, due to the tongue weight of the rear trailer. I'd always bring along 200-300lbs of ballast to add to the front of the front trailer. If you didn't do this, you were in for a heck of a ride. With the ballast added, you could run hwy speeds, and they would trail as well as if hooked single.

If you have a trailer that has a strong enough frame but has too much twist, weld a piece of pipe, down the middle of the trailer, from one end to the other. They have started doing this with higher end gooseneck trailers and you wouldn't believe the difference it makes. Pipe doesn't like to twist and if you make sure the ends are welded in good and strong, it will take most of the twist out of it. I'd say on a trailer like the one in question, you'd want a 4" pipe minimum.

 

[Another Ahab]

Or maybe I'm just getting old, feeling that it's nicer to work with clean metal?

That sounds unusual, Flu Farm. You know maybe you should go see a doctor about that.

 

[DanM7890]

Alright, didn't realize that they were so pricey in your neck of the woods, Dan.
I most definitely can relate to the having built-it-myself feeling, which is worth a lot in itself. But when you're only reusing the springs (if I understand things correctly), I thought you'd be time and money ahead by buying a new one, or by buying the steel and parts and start fresh.
Or maybe I'm just getting old, feeling that it's nicer to work with clean metal?

Clean metal is always nice. The metal on this isn't bad, just some surface rust but still in great shape. As far as the new parts, everything will be replaced other than the original frame. List of items I have bought new, spring hangers, springs, axles, axle flip kit to put spring above axle, and I have also bought a new system for the front for hooking up. Instead of limiting myself to ball or pintle, I have bought an adjustable C channel to mount either device.

It's a lot of work don't get my wrong, but I enjoy this type of work and I have the free time to do it. The old axles and springs are up on CL to sell to recoup some of the cost. I have also sold the A-frame that I took off which also helps me break even on some new parts.

 

[DanM7890]

As for weight placement, a good rule of thumb is 60% to the front and 40% to the back. You can certainly get by with a little more or less than that but don't get anywhere close to 50/50 or the trailer will fishtail. When I was picking up a lot of M105s, I'd regularly pull two at a time, one behind the other. When you attached them double, you'd end up with the front trailer being almost balanced, due to the tongue weight of the rear trailer. I'd always bring along 200-300lbs of ballast to add to the front of the front trailer. If you didn't do this, you were in for a heck of a ride. With the ballast added, you could run hwy speeds, and they would trail as well as if hooked single.

If you have a trailer that has a strong enough frame but has too much twist, weld a piece of pipe, down the middle of the trailer, from one end to the other. They have started doing this with higher end gooseneck trailers and you wouldn't believe the difference it makes. Pipe doesn't like to twist and if you make sure the ends are welded in good and strong, it will take most of the twist out of it. I'd say on a trailer like the one in question, you'd want a 4" pipe minimum.

My idea isn't to make the shelter permanent so I can move it around to find the best position. Right now 110% of my focus is on the trailer rebuild itself and shelter second. It may just come down to keeping this as a normal trailer and using the M720 dolly I picked up for the camper setup.

 

[The FLU farm]

That sounds unusual, Flu Farm. You know maybe you should go see a doctor about that.

Good point, Ahab. I better do it while the ACA is still in effect, huh?
More importantly, Dan, please make sure that your tetanus shot is current.

 

[DanM7890]

Good point, Ahab. I better do it while the ACA is still in effect, huh?
More importantly, Dan, please make sure that your tetanus shot is current.

Got one last year!

 

[The FLU farm]

Clean metal is always nice. The metal on this isn't bad, just some surface rust but still in great shape. As far as the new parts, everything will be replaced other than the original frame. List of items I have bought new, spring hangers, springs, axles, axle flip kit to put spring above axle, and I have also bought a new system for the front for hooking up. Instead of limiting myself to ball or pintle, I have bought an adjustable C channel to mount either device.

Dan, thinking about this last night a few thoughts surfaced. I couldn't help but compare my most recent trailer purchase with the $4,000 you mentioned for a new trailer.
I ordered a '17 PJ 30-foot gooseneck, with tandem duals, disc brakes, air suspension, "black wood" decking, custom color, and a some other odds and ends (wish I'd opted for the center tube, too). It came to just over 12K. That's why I had a hard time understanding 4K for a basic 20' bumper pull.
And there are things I'll be changing on that one, primarily in the suspension, so the satisfaction of DIY isn't all lost.
Back to your trailer; A pure guess on my part, but was that by any chance a travel trailer in its former life?

 

[Another Ahab]

Good point, Ahab. I better do it while the ACA is still in effect, huh?
More importantly, Dan, please make sure that your tetanus shot is current.

Funny you mention that. Me and Momma were considering healthcare just a few weeks back, and had the thought it might actually be more cost-effective to just pay as we needed (whatever we might need).

I made some calls: NO doctors will take individual payment. They don't know how to handle that. They are all now caught up in the billing system. You CAN'T pay as you go. Who knew?

Guess I better keep drinking those prune shooters, you think?!

 

[The FLU farm]

Funny you mention that. Me and Momma were considering healthcare just a few weeks back, and had the thought it might actually be more cost-effective to just pay as we needed (whatever we might need).

I made some calls: NO doctors will take individual payment. They don't know how to handle that. They are all now caught up in the billing system. You CAN'T pay as you go. Who knew?

Guess I better keep drinking those prune shooters, you think?!

Hmm, things must've changed in the last couple of years. I had to have an MRI, couldn't really take the 1,000-mile trip to CA (where I was insured at the time) and went to a local outfit.
They said "If you're paying cash, you get a rebate." I asked them if a credit card counted as cash, they said yes. I asked how much the rebate was, they said 50%.
That's when I decided that pay-as-you-go looked like a very feasible method. But no more, huh?

 

[DanM7890]

Dan, thinking about this last night a few thoughts surfaced. I couldn't help but compare my most recent trailer purchase with the $4,000 you mentioned for a new trailer.
I ordered a '17 PJ 30-foot gooseneck, with tandem duals, disc brakes, air suspension, "black wood" decking, custom color, and a some other odds and ends (wish I'd opted for the center tube, too). It came to just over 12K. That's why I had a hard time understanding 4K for a basic 20' bumper pull.
And there are things I'll be changing on that one, primarily in the suspension, so the satisfaction of DIY isn't all lost.
Back to your trailer; A pure guess on my part, but was that by any chance a travel trailer in its former life?

When pricing a 7500# 20' deckover trailer the prices were anywhere from 3000-3600 for a basic trailer. Bumper pull, tandem, brakes on both, wood decking, brand new and I just couldn't see spending that much. I owned a 18' car trailer before this and I hated the wheel wheels in the way. Center of gravity was nice and low but it didn't suit my needs for loading and unloading. All said and done this one will be cheaper, be almost brand new, and serve my needs 110%.

As for its former life it was used on a farm in GA transporting round bails from what I was told. It was built by a farmer and registered as a homemade trailer.

 

[Another Ahab]

Hmm, things must've changed in the last couple of years. I had to have an MRI, couldn't really take the 1,000-mile trip to CA (where I was insured at the time) and went to a local outfit.
They said "If you're paying cash, you get a rebate." I asked them if a credit card counted as cash, they said yes. I asked how much the rebate was, they said 50%.
That's when I decided that pay-as-you-go looked like a very feasible method. But no more, huh?

THAT'S interesting to learn. But I didn't talk to any MRI ops, just doctor offices.

And how do we tie this back into DanM7890's trailer?!

 

[The FLU farm]

When pricing a 7500# 20' deckover trailer the prices were anywhere from 3000-3600 for a basic trailer. Bumper pull, tandem, brakes on both, wood decking, brand new and I just couldn't see spending that much. I owned a 18' car trailer before this and I hated the wheel wheels in the way. Center of gravity was nice and low but it didn't suit my needs for loading and unloading. All said and done this one will be cheaper, be almost brand new, and serve my needs 110%.

Here's where we get back to the regularly scheduled trailer programming, Ahab.

I know what you're saying about loading and unloading a non-deckover, Dan. This morning I ordered 84-inch fork extensions because of one.
In theory that should allow loading a cabover camper onto an 18' gooseneck since the fenders are removable. IF fork placement versus tires, and center of gravity on the camper, all happen to coincide. That remains to be seen.
Of course, it's also an unknown if one forklift will handle it, or if I need to use two. Or maybe it's better to build spreaders and use the crane(s)? One definite advantage is that I can operate both cranes simultaneously, not so with the forklifts.
A logical person would put the camper on the tow vehicle, the normal and simple way, but I do like trailers. And apparently also problems.

 

[Another Ahab]

THAT'S interesting to learn. But I didn't talk to any MRI ops, just doctor offices.

And how do we tie this back into DanM7890's trailer?!

Here's where we get back to the regularly scheduled trailer programming, Ahab.

I apologize to you, DanM7890; and speaking of doctors I should probably get this habit medicated....

Loving your project, though; and thanks for the thread!

 

[DanM7890]

I apologize to you, DanM7890; and speaking of doctors I should probably get this habit medicated....

Loving your project, though; and thanks for the thread!

No worries, thread is still on topic.