NV4500 rattle with clutch released

[erasedhammer]

New throw out bearing, new pilot bushing, pivot ball is greased, slave cylinder push rod secured against pivot arm.... I guess this noise is just normal?
Maybe louder than normal considering I have no insulation in the truck right now.

Note: AA pivot arm and slave cylinder adapter (for use with SM465 external slave cylinder)

 

[Barrman]

Do you have the special $50 oil in the transmission?

My NV4500 was loud like that when I installed it in the M715. I changed the fluid and it got better. But not gone. It has slowly over the years gotten louder again. Judging by the number of used NV4500’s out there with bad input shaft bearings. I think that will end up being our problem.

 

[erasedhammer]

Do you have the special $50 oil in the transmission?

My NV4500 was loud like that when I installed it in the M715. I changed the fluid and it got better. But not gone. It has slowly over the years gotten louder again. Judging by the number of used NV4500’s out there with bad input shaft bearings. I think that will end up being our problem.

Yep, synthetic gl4 75w85. New input shaft bearing too. Fluid is brand new, Ill change it again to see if the sound changes at all.

I was thinking that maybe the clutch fork was rattling against the throw out bearing since there is nothing retaining the TO bearing to the fork itself.

 

[Skinny]

I am no NV4500 expert but that is internal noise and definitely not the throwout.

My guess is input or countershaft bearing. I do know and also was stated that the NV4500 is a noisy girl.

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[erasedhammer]

I am no NV4500 expert but that is internal noise and definitely not the throwout.

My guess is input or countershaft bearing. I do know and also was stated that the NV4500 is a noisy girl.

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If it's normal then I can live with it.

Potentially bearing cage rattling when the counter shaft is unloaded spinning at idle?

 

[Skinny]

Your noise happens as soon as you start lifting off of the pedal which means the input shaft and countershaft spin up. I'd make sure the noise isnt getting louder over time. Probably wouldn't sweat it myself. These new Venture Transmissions are notorious for rattling. I had a Jeep with an NV 3500 and it sounded like there were rocks spinning in the bottom of it. Never gave me an ounce of trouble.

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[erasedhammer]

Ill add that the rattling does not occur when coasting in neutral. As soon as I slow below a couple of mph, the rattling starts. Seems to be louder when on a slope for some reason.
I think the countershaft is the source.

 

[shotty]

" synthetic gl4 75w85 " is not specific enough for these transmissions. They require more than just a GL4 spec oil due to the carbon synchros. What exact oil are you using?

Attached a file that is specifically about eliminating a rattle from a failed dual mass flywheel but its interesting to note that they say some transmission noise is normal and cannot be repaired.

Have you ever had this transmission open? How did the input shaft snout look when you installed it? Just got done rebuilding one myself and am hoping to get it into the truck soon.

 

[erasedhammer]

" synthetic gl4 75w85 " is not specific enough for these transmissions. They require more than just a GL4 spec oil due to the carbon synchros. What exact oil are you using?

Attached a file that is specifically about eliminating a rattle from a failed dual mass flywheel but its interesting to note that they say some transmission noise is normal and cannot be repaired.

Have you ever had this transmission open? How did the input shaft snout look when you installed it? Just got done rebuilding one myself and am hoping to get it into the truck soon.

I used redline mt85. Says on the bottle nv4500 and I read plenty of dodge guys having good luck with it.

I rebuilt the transmission myself following a guide. Bearings are brand new as is the input shaft. End play is correct.

 

[shotty]

Hmm not sure, it all seems to check out. Try calling torque king or one of the shops you got your parts from, maybe they have an idea or can tell you if it's normal.

 

[shotty]

Mine does it too! It's really noticeable with no shift boot on. Doing some research it seems that's
normal for these transmissions.

Or we both messed up our rebuild in the same way!

 

[erasedhammer]

Mine does it too! It's really noticeable with no shift boot on. Doing some research it seems that's
normal for these transmissions.

Or we both messed up our rebuild in the same way!

I don't think its the bearing. The countershaft will continue to spin a little bit after the clutch pedal is depressed. But the noise stops immediately. So the noise is not connected to the rotation of the countershaft/input shaft, but rather the direct connection to the engine in neutral.
The only thing that makes sense is the engine vibrations shaking the counter shaft enough to rattle the small amount of backlash that the gears have. OR maybe a bearing cage rattling?

How did you press your bearings onto the input and counter shaft during your rebuild?

 

[shotty]

I agree with it being backlash rattle, that's the same thing I've been thinking. The input shaft bearing I heated up and cooled the shaft and dropped it on, then I took it out to my shop press and made sure it was snug. The countershaft I just used the shop press.

 

[erasedhammer]

I agree with it being backlash rattle, that's the same thing I've been thinking. The input shaft bearing I heated up and cooled the shaft and dropped it on, then I took it out to my shop press and made sure it was snug. The countershaft I just used the shop press.

Yeah I did the same thing except used a floor jack and the frame of a vehicle. lol I do not own a press of any kind.

 

[79Vette]

Sorry to bring this back from the dead, but did you ever figure out a fix for the rattle? I have the exact same rattle (video link at the end), and am wondering how you dealt with it.

I've always this rattle/grind at low RPM that sounds like the engine pulses are causing the gear teeth to bounce off each other. Its the most obvious with the transfer case in neutral and the trans in gear (no excess road/engine noise), which I thought was bad input or countershaft bearings in the trans or a worn out coupler/mainshaft.

I pulled all the gearboxes (ranger torque splitter, 465, 205) and rebuilt them. The bearings looked fine but I replaced them anyway due to age, and I got a new 10 spline mainshaft in the 465 and a new coupler sleeve to address some significant spline wear.

I have everything back in the truck. Bellhousing aligned, new flywheel and clutch, new pilot bushing, throwout bearing correctly installed, new bearings in all gearboxes. And I still have the same noise.

The following video starts with everything in neutral and the clutch engaged and there is no noise. So this seems to rule out anything to do with the clutch. At 0:09 I disengage the clutch (still no noise), put the Ranger (2 speed transmission in front of the 465) in gear and let out the clutch, and I get a low growling noise as soon as the clutch engages and the SM465 input shaft starts to spin. Up to 0:15 I put the clutch in and out a few times and you can hear the stop as the clutch disengages and then immediately resume when I reengage the clutch. Then I put the trans into second, then third, then the Ranger into overdrive and the rattle gets louder with increasing output shaft RPM. At the very end I rev the engine slightly and the noise stops, and the same thing happens in any gear.

I used a mechanics stethoscope on each of the gearboxes and the bellhousing, and the noise is by far the loudest from the bellhousing and gets more muffled as I work back to the transfre case.

Any guesses what could possibly make this noise? The gearboxes are all rebuilt and the clutch is new, so I'm out of ideas at this point but it sounds exactly like the noise in the video from this thread.


video

 

[erasedhammer]

Sorry to bring this back from the dead, but did you ever figure out a fix for the rattle? I have the exact same rattle (video link at the end), and am wondering how you dealt with it.

I've always this rattle/grind at low RPM that sounds like the engine pulses are causing the gear teeth to bounce off each other. Its the most obvious with the transfer case in neutral and the trans in gear (no excess road/engine noise), which I thought was bad input or countershaft bearings in the trans or a worn out coupler/mainshaft.

I pulled all the gearboxes (ranger torque splitter, 465, 205) and rebuilt them. The bearings looked fine but I replaced them anyway due to age, and I got a new 10 spline mainshaft in the 465 and a new coupler sleeve to address some significant spline wear.

I have everything back in the truck. Bellhousing aligned, new flywheel and clutch, new pilot bushing, throwout bearing correctly installed, new bearings in all gearboxes. And I still have the same noise.

The following video starts with everything in neutral and the clutch engaged and there is no noise. So this seems to rule out anything to do with the clutch. At 0:09 I disengage the clutch (still no noise), put the Ranger (2 speed transmission in front of the 465) in gear and let out the clutch, and I get a low growling noise as soon as the clutch engages and the SM465 input shaft starts to spin. Up to 0:15 I put the clutch in and out a few times and you can hear the stop as the clutch disengages and then immediately resume when I reengage the clutch. Then I put the trans into second, then third, then the Ranger into overdrive and the rattle gets louder with increasing output shaft RPM. At the very end I rev the engine slightly and the noise stops, and the same thing happens in any gear.

I used a mechanics stethoscope on each of the gearboxes and the bellhousing, and the noise is by far the loudest from the bellhousing and gets more muffled as I work back to the transfre case.

Any guesses what could possibly make this noise? The gearboxes are all rebuilt and the clutch is new, so I'm out of ideas at this point but it sounds exactly like the noise in the video from this thread.


video

I was stuck in traffic once just idling in 1st gear rumbling along, and the same rattling noise that happens to me in neutral clutch pedal released was present. But it definitely is only present at a sort of floating point (where the driving force from the engine is almost equal to the drive force of the wheels, sorta equilibrium)

I honestly think that its just a clutch rattle. If these engines have enough vibration to rattle off the main shaft nut torqued to over 250 ft/lbs, they probably rattle enough to shake elements of the clutch.

I wonder if anyone has had this noise for a long time and can comment on the long term mechanical affects, if any.

 

[79Vette]

I have had the noise for 3 years on a junkyard trans, and when I pulled it everything was in great shape except some wear on the leading edge of the reverse gear, which I expect in an un-synchronized gear.

Still has the noise after rebuilding.

No apparent damage, but it is very annoying.

 

[Firehound]

I wonder if anyone has had this noise for a long time and can comment on the long term mechanical affects, if any.

I have had the same NV4500 in 2 different suburbans with 3 different clutches (and we're not going to go into all the various configurations of slave/master assemblies!) and it has always had that rattle with no (known!) ill effects. It's bugged me for years, but doesnt seem to be anything other than an annoyance.

 

[Barrman]

Mine still rattle and works just fine as well.

 

[Mad Texan]

Hello my name is ___________, and I have a rattle in neutral from my NV4500 that instantly goes away when I press in the clutch. It's been that way for ______ (insert days since install) and it's annoying