"occasional" brush truck. Opinions?

[Tlauden]

Hello all!!

Hear me out here, I wanted to run this idea past the experts and hear what everyone thinks of this idea, both good and bad.

So with the recent amount of wildfires I have been trying to find a way to get the deuce out and make it earn it's keep We at the fire house were thinking of keeping it practical but useful. I think my final plan is going to be to put two 250 gal tanks in the bed, coupled with one of our fire house's portable high pressure pumps and a couple hundred feet of 1" forestry hose it would make a heck of a brush unit. I'm going this route for a multitude of reasons. 1) those tanks I can get for $20 a Piece 2) I can use the pump for free when the system is needed 3) along with 500 gallons of water I can haul equipment and a few additional personnel. 500 gallons along with a pressure pump and 1 inch hose should give a decent amount of attack time. Plus the best part of the system is its completely removable!!! So I wouldn't be sacrificing my deuce year round.


I'm figuring including all supplies as follows
2 250 Gal Tote/Tanks - $40
Equipment to secure tanks (chains & ratchets) - $50
Piping and fittings for tanks to pump - $100
Pump - free when I need it
Hose - free to use when needed
Misc scene/warning lighting - $200
Stuff I forgot - ??

All in all I think I can put it together for a lot less than $500
And I am figuring it will be right around 5000 Lbs loaded,
4000Lbs - water
500-1000 Lbs Misc Equip
=
2 1/2 tons of equipment, it's living up to its name hahaha


Reason behind all this:
We had a big fire yesterday up on some old logging trails, the regular brush pickup trucks couldn't make access for almost two hours due to the road being pretty rough and they had to wait on a logging skidder to get the road a little better. In that time we "lost" the fire. It started as a 50x75 area but due to lack of initial crew/equipment it quickly spread up the mountain. In the end just over 19 acres burnt. I was on one of the first in rigs (that couldn't access) and while walking the three miles with all the gear up that road all I could think was the deuce would have crawled up there like a walk through the park.


Any questions or concerns please speak up!!!

Thanks
Tyler

 

[kipman]

Sounds fine, the only thing that comes to mine is no baffles in the tanks.

 

[Goose2448]

I dont see why you would not do this. Sounds like a great plan for the "hey we need help" moment. I dont think baffles would be too much of a problem, if they keep the tanks empty until close to the scene. I cant remember that many brush fires when I lived up there though. Now down here, you see Deuces all the time fighting fires.

You dont happen to know Frank the Tank do you? He is a live in over at 34 out of Pax.

 

[Tlauden]

That name sounds very familiar, while I don't know him personally I might know who he is if I saw him.

And yea the non-baffled tanks are the only things im worried about. But 95% of the time the tanks would either be empty or full. Empty obviously has no problems and full the sloshing would be very little. Plus once it goes into operation it would be stationary or else moving very slow, which I don't think half full tanks at less than 5 mph would be a problem. Once It is on scene it wouldn't be leaving, maybe just going back to the hard surface to get refilled by the big tankers

 

[Thunder in NWOR]

The Govt has by policy discontinued Emergency Equipment Rental Agreements for fires on federal lands, wherein they used to hire engines and tankers "off the street" when needed. They now require pre-season contracts, by bid on by compitition, for equipment meeting preset equipment standards.
Many State land management agencies have followed this trend.
I strongly suggest checking within your area of potential hiring agents before getting too deep into purchase of equipment components!!

In addition, there are pretty stringent requirements for training/experience for personnel staffing the equipment.
Mark

 

[Ghostrider73]

We have 3 dueces we've built as our brush trucks. We use 600 gal (former Mil oil storage tanks), and we have no problem not having baffles. The way these are set up, they'll go just about everywhere our Goat will go. I would recommend adding a short whip line as well as the 100 ft line with a valve on each. The whip line will have better pressure for when woking in close.

Matt

 

[Goose2448]

NWOR, he is a firefighter, I think he is okay...


Frank the Tank...

 

[Srjeeper]

Aside from the fact you'd be placeing you & your truck in a very dangerous sernario.

If it broke down out there in the middle of a fire, who would be responsible for getting it out? I'm sure your insurance company would balk at the idea of paying up on a truck you drove into a fire as a volunteer to 'Help Out'.

How long would you expect your truck to last in that environment, hauling that type load? How can you be sure they would even use you once you put a price tag on your service?

It may sound like a good idea, but I'd bet it'll end up costing you more in the long run than you ever expected.

 

[Goose2448]

Aside from the fact you'd be placeing you & your truck in a very dangerous sernario.

If it broke down out there in the middle of a fire, who would be responsible for getting it out? I'm sure your insurance company would balk at the idea of paying up on a truck you drove into a fire as a volunteer to 'Help Out'.

How long would you expect your truck to last in that environment, hauling that type load? How can you be sure they would even use you once you put a price tag on your service?

It may sound like a good idea, but I'd bet it'll end up costing you more in the long run than you ever expected.

Its just a truck, it can be fixed or replaced. I know no one here wants to hear that. But if the OP want to help saves lives with his truck I think its a conmemable effort. If it saves 1000 lives or 1 life, it has done its job. It is just a truck.

I think if the department fills your tank or helps fix stuff that breaks while in-service that would be payment enough. At least it would be for me.

 

[jeffhuey1n]

Personal equipment for a non personal use is very risky. many of the issues have been brought up. One that hasn't been hit to hard is the legal issue. Hauling equipment is one thing. Hauling people..total different story. Questions to ask include, what if someone gets injured, what happens if your rig craps out due to unforseen circumstances and hinders professional or contracted operations...liability is a stone cold *****. Build your rig, but keep it for personal use only. use on your land or in a manner that doesn't hinder so called"proffessional"equipment would probably pass the SAN check. Sounds like you're a volunteer(?). If so, thank you for doing what I cannot. However, don't put you or your truck in hazardous situations without top cover. You will lose in the end.

Sorry I can't make this sound like it'd save your back on a real scenario while supporting your firehouse. It could come to some good use for personal property but that in my humble opinion is where it should stay. Id have to say, get thefirhouse to buy a truck, set it up like you mentioned and then it would be a sanctioned rig.

Funny you mention this setup. Up past Torrington in a little bitty town is a 5000 gallon water rig set up on I think a 5 ton chasis. Not sure what it's original purpose was but it was usedfor grassland fire fighting. They got a grant to buy a new truck and this one is just sitting there. (sorry,no pictures) I tried to get my hands on it but there's some legalities about selling to a private party. if your interested, I'll get the info and you can talk firefighter to firefighter. Getting it from Wyoming to PA...can you say OUCH My aching back

 

[Tlauden]

Wow thanks for bringing up some points I did not think about. My personal insurance situation didn't even cross my mind. As to what if the truck breaks, the fire companies insurance would fall in there to a point. Somehow/somewhere in our dept's insurance it states that once a POV (personally owned vehicle) is needed/required for operations the firehouse takes liability. That is mostly because many people take personal vehicles to the scene. Once your personal vehicle is on scene it is legally consider fire apparatus. I don't know if this is Dept specific or not. But this is how on a regular basis we have multiple ATV's to use for equipment and manpower transport once on scene. In the past personal vehicles have broke while "on duty" and they dept's insurance has stepped up to the plate and fixed them.


To be on the safe side though I will sit down and have a chat about legalities with this with the officers in my Dept. Also I will see if I can dig deeper to see about doing this legally and safely. It still would be a nice resource to utilize.

As to the fire dept. "compensating" they have already put fuel in the tank when we used it for floods in the fall. Plus the deuce stays at the firehouse since my yards to little to keep it... So in the end I'm not worried bout stuff like that. It works out



I really appreciate the concerns though guys. Your all bringing up some serious topics. Thanks

 

[quickfarms]

Here is a link to the Roscommon equipment center that has plans for duece based fire trucks and slide ins you should find very interesting

http://www.roscommonequipmentcenter.com/

 

[cattlerepairman]

It is a sad reality that today the first question is not "how can I help?" but "what if I get sued?".
I have had similar thoughts as you; I am a volunteer as well and have my Deuce 300 yards from the fire hall all summer. We get our fair share of grass and brush fires. I have remained undecided; we are a composite department (full time and volunteer) and the liability of a "non approved apparatus" is scary.

I can see running the truck to a scene as a POV and working it myself; as soon as you load other firefighters on board (and, in my case, I'd have no control if they would be unionized full timers or volunteers) you'd take on an extra set of responsibility. Arguably, you would do the same as an operator of a regular fire truck.

I am waiting for an opportunity to use the truck as a material hauler first; hoses and equipment, and see how it goes from there.

 

[stoney_bogg]

In Ohio our Forestry Dept draws equipment from the Government for use by Fire Departments.
They are at a higher level for selection-then it drops to the State level and then to Govt Liquidation level.
I would contact your forestry department and see if they have a program for equipment.

 

[ratat98]

Sounds pretty slick to me! Im the local Emergency Manager, and I've thought about putting a little water in the back of my deuce just in case it would be needed. The local FD used to use all deuces and five tons for their brush trucks, but they just have one deuce left, and it goes out on every fire because they love it so much.

 

[fasttruck]

Don't overload it. This is easy to do as water is heavier than petroleum. I recall the NFPA has determined the number one cause of firefighter fatalities attributed to vehicular accidents is tanker roll overs.

 

[pctrans]

You definitely need one of these......

 

[John S-B]

Another thing you have not addressed is ROPS. Deuces have NONE. You might want to give the NIOSH LODD reports a gander first. You need to give this some SERIOUS thought. If anyone but you drives it, drivers training is an absolute MUST. Home brew fire apparatus used to be cool, until I realized how many FF's got killed in them. There are purpose built fire fighting deuces, but they've been professionally built.

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/wp-solutions/2011-125/pdfs/2011-125.pdf
Fire Fighter Fatality Investigation Report F2003-23 | CDC/NIOSH