Opinion on towing capacity

[montaillou]

I was reading another thread about making bad choices and this probably falls under that category.

Background:

I want a FV102 tracked vehicle (or maybe a CVRT). Thing is, my state won't let me drive it on paved roads, but there are LOTS of unpaved logging roads near me. I just need to trailer it there, it comes in between 8-9 tons.

I'm doing an engine swap on the Deuce, and torque will increase to 605 ft lbs. I would think this would increase the tow capacity, but I don't really know how much. Any trailer I get will have to come with brakes, and will weigh probably 2 tons by itself. Should I be looking at getting something like an M931?

 

[simp5782]

I was reading another thread about making bad choices and this probably falls under that category.

Background:

I want a FV102 tracked vehicle (or maybe a CVRT). Thing is, my state won't let me drive it on paved roads, but there are LOTS of unpaved logging roads near me. I just need to trailer it there, it comes in between 8-9 tons.

I'm doing an engine swap on the Deuce, and torque will increase to 605 ft lbs. I would think this would increase the tow capacity, but I don't really know how much. Any trailer I get will have to come with brakes, and will weigh probably 2 tons by itself. Should I be looking at getting something like an M931?

5 ton and a globe or load Kong EET trailer will work. The 102 in under 17k so it won't mind it.

Maybe a 915a1 they can go cheap, and use the same trailer and put a cargo bed on the truck.

I've moved a couple 436s they are much heavier.

 

[Mullaney]

I was reading another thread about making bad choices and this probably falls under that category.

Background:

I want a FV102 tracked vehicle (or maybe a CVRT). Thing is, my state won't let me drive it on paved roads, but there are LOTS of unpaved logging roads near me. I just need to trailer it there, it comes in between 8-9 tons.

I'm doing an engine swap on the Deuce, and torque will increase to 605 ft lbs. I would think this would increase the tow capacity, but I don't really know how much. Any trailer I get will have to come with brakes, and will weigh probably 2 tons by itself. Should I be looking at getting something like an M931?

.
Hi montaillou ,

According to Wikipedia the Stryker weighs in at about 17,000 pounds. The Deuce may very well tow a trailer (add another few thousand pounds) with that tracked unit on it. I even found a pretty good discussion about it here @ SS. It seems that the biggest problem might be your operators license. Link below:

Max towing capacity of a M35?

Most of you don't have to worry about Mr. Murphy (murpheys law), because he is usually sitting on my shoulders crapping down my back on a daily basis.

www.steelsoldiers.com

A bigger towing vehicle would be be a plus just because of the mass involved. That doesn't help your licensing situation though...

 

[Tow4]

I have two questions that need to have a yes answer before I tow something.

1. Can I stop the towed vehicle if the brakes on it fail or don't work? To me that means the towing vehicle needs to weigh the same or more than the towed vehicle and have good brakes.

2. Is the towing vehicle heavy enough to not be pushed around by the towed vehicle? This mostly applies to flat towing. A tractor is lite on the drivers with no weight on the 5th wheel or pintle so it's easy for a heavy towed vehicle to push the tail end around. A cargo truck would be better, you can put weight in the bed and they have a longer wheel base.

Depending on terrain, your Deuce probably has enough power to tow the trailer and load you are describing, It comes down to what the tow rating is in the manual and the placard on the dash. If you exceed the rating and have an accident or are stopped by a DOT officer, it could get costly.

 

[Mullaney]

I have two questions that need to have a yes answer before I tow something.

1. Can I stop the towed vehicle if the brakes on it fail or don't work? To me that means the towing vehicle needs to weigh the same or more than the towed vehicle and have good brakes.

2. Is the towing vehicle heavy enough to not be pushed around by the towed vehicle? This mostly applies to flat towing. A tractor is lite on the drivers with no weight on the 5th wheel or pintle so it's easy for a heavy towed vehicle to push the tail end around. A cargo truck would be better, you can put weight in the bed and they have a longer wheel base.

Depending on terrain, your Deuce probably has enough power to tow the trailer and load you are describing, It comes down to what the tow rating is in the manual and the placard on the dash. If you exceed the rating and have an accident or are stopped by a DOT officer, it could get costly.

.
Well said Tow4 .

Especially paragraph 3 - about the DOT man and potential for a big bucks mess if you exceed stated weight.

 

[montaillou]

Thanks for the replies.

Maybe a 915a1

Thanks, I'll add it to the list of trucks to look out for.

operators license

Always a fan of expanding my knowledge base.

 

[dmetalmiki]

Hmm. Stopping is MORE important than pulling. (Capability!).
I only ever used the Kraz 255B or the M62 wrecker when towing my FV432 to a LOCAL event.
...ON or OFF my CPT 22 ton trailer.

 

[Csm Davis]

Okay not trying to be rude but how would DOT official be able to know you are overweight? No combination weight listed on data plate, trailer plate should show plenty of capacity.
Wouldn't really recommend doing it because it will probably still be fairly slow but as to what the truck will handle it will pull it, as to brakes the trailer should be setup with spring air brakes that will shut down if you lose air, so that shouldn't be a problem. The folks that think your truck should outweigh the trailer don't understand proper loading and good brake maintenance. All most every load over 8 tons or 16,000 lbs will make the trailer outweigh the truck even with a semi-tractor.
I personally would get a tractor trailer setup of the military variety because I believe it to more useful all around. And yes you could make the M35 into a tractor also.

 

[Mullaney]

Okay not trying to be rude but how would DOT official be able to know you are overweight? No combination weight listed on data plate, trailer plate should show plenty of capacity.
Wouldn't really recommend doing it because it will probably still be fairly slow but as to what the truck will handle it will pull it, as to brakes the trailer should be setup with spring air brakes that will shut down if you lose air, so that shouldn't be a problem. The folks that think your truck should outweigh the trailer don't understand proper loading and good brake maintenance. All most every load over 8 tons or 16,000 lbs will make the trailer outweigh the truck even with a semi-tractor.
I personally would get a tractor trailer setup of the military variety because I believe it to more useful all around. And yes you could make the M35 into a tractor also.

.
Jeff,

You are 100% right about using a tractor and a trailer to haul a tracked vehicle! How to properly load something on a trailer is a whole new ballgame to most folks and knowing that "the new guy " needs to put some weight on the nose of a trailer being pulled on pintle is something to be learned too. Knowing about spring brakes / dual chambered cans are definitely a plus too...

I dunno. Maybe everybody got a little carried away about a 17,000# vehicle being dragged on the highway by possibly marginal equipment.

As far as the DOT man is concerned, maybe their bark is worse than their bite. All I can say for sure is that when those blue cars pull in behind you they never seem to be doing you any favors .

 

[chucky]

Okay not trying to be rude but how would DOT official be able to know you are overweight? No combination weight listed on data plate, trailer plate should show plenty of capacity.
Wouldn't really recommend doing it because it will probably still be fairly slow but as to what the truck will handle it will pull it, as to brakes the trailer should be setup with spring air brakes that will shut down if you lose air, so that shouldn't be a problem. The folks that think your truck should outweigh the trailer don't understand proper loading and good brake maintenance. All most every load over 8 tons or 16,000 lbs will make the trailer outweigh the truck even with a semi-tractor.
I personally would get a tractor trailer setup of the military variety because I believe it to more useful all around. And yes you could make the M35 into a tractor also.

The dot doesnt need to see a data plate it make no difference to them they are going to add up what each tire says it can handle at certain psi or their going to allow you 20,000 lbs an axle for duels on big truck 34,000 on tandems ans 12 ,000 on single/steer unless you have flotation /wide /super single

 

[Tow4]

The folks that think your truck should outweigh the trailer don't understand proper loading and good brake maintenance. All most every load over 8 tons or 16,000 lbs will make the trailer outweigh the truck even with a semi-tractor.

Maybe you don't understand the loading of a semi-truck trailer combination. The combination gross is 80,000 lbs. Of that load, 34,000 lbs are on the trailer tandems, 34,000 lbs on the tractor drivers, and 12,000 lbs on the steer axle. That means there is 46,000 lbs on the tractor vs 34,000 lbs on the trailer. It would be pretty to hard to get a semi trailer to weigh more than the tractor without some creative (stupid) loading.

 

[Csm Davis]

1. Can I stop the towed vehicle if the brakes on it fail or don't work? To me that means the towing vehicle needs to weigh the same or more than the towed vehicle and have good brakes.
You don't say anything about the load or if any of it is on the pulling vehicle.
2. Is the towing vehicle heavy enough to not be pushed around by the towed vehicle? This mostly applies to flat towing. A tractor is lite on the drivers with no weight on the 5th wheel or pintle so it's easy for a heavy towed vehicle to push the tail end around. A cargo truck would be better, you can put weight in the bed and they have a longer wheel base.
Yet again no real mention of the load of the pulling vehicle other than adding extra to the bed to make it heavier than what you are pulling.
Depending on terrain, your Deuce probably has enough power to tow the trailer and load you are describing, It comes down to what the tow rating is in the manual and the placard on the dash. If you exceed the rating and have an accident or are stopped by a DOT officer, it could get costly.
DOT will not spend the time to try to find the combination weight of the M35 but will check the plate on the trailer and might weight it and the truck to make sure it is loaded correctly.

As to my statement to the truck being lighter than what it pulls I am correct but yes some of the load is on the tractor, as to understanding of semi-tractor-trailer loading yeah probably forgot more since 1984 when I started driving one, that happened to be a M915, than most will ever know. Also there are many ways to pull lots more weight than you will ever put on the truck safely.

 

[Mullaney]

As to my statement to the truck being lighter than what it pulls I am correct but yes some of the load is on the tractor, as to understanding of semi-tractor-trailer loading yeah probably forgot more since 1984 when I started driving one, that happened to be a M915, than most will ever know. Also there are many ways to pull lots more weight than you will ever put on the truck safely.

.
Yes sir! And that experience can't be bought and won't be learned overnight.

I have to ask... What is that massive frame for?

 

[Tow4]

As to my statement to the truck being lighter than what it pulls I am correct but yes some of the load is on the tractor, as to understanding of semi-tractor-trailer loading yeah probably forgot more since 1984 when I started driving one, that happened to be a M915, than most will ever know. Also there are many ways to pull lots more weight than you will ever put on the truck safely.

When you can explain how there is more weight on the trailer tandems than is on the tractor axles on a 80K semi tractor trailer (the example I used) then I will say you are right too. I too have seen you tube videos of massive oversize loads that when pulled across a suspension bridge caused the bridge to bow. The combined weight of the tractor and all the pusher trucks put together would not come close to the load.

However, I believe the OP is talking about on highway use and the load he describes isn't overweight. I think the consensus is for him to look for a more capable tow vehicle than a deuce.

 

[Csm Davis]

.
Yes sir! And that experience can't be bought and won't be learned overnight.

I have to ask... What is that massive frame for?

It's part of a loading boom for loading bulk grain cargo ships. I pulled it up and over the levy outside New Orleans.

 

[Csm Davis]

When you can explain how there is more weight on the trailer tandems than is on the tractor axles on a 80K semi tractor trailer (the example I used) then I will say you are right too. I too have seen you tube videos of massive oversize loads that when pulled across a suspension bridge caused the bridge to bow. The combined weight of the tractor and all the pusher trucks put together would not come close to the load.

Easy simple mistake that lots of truckers have been fined for, miss loaded cargo and improperly setup trailers. To much weight at the rear and or the trailer tandem to far forward. Bam! To much on the trailer and not enough on the truck, also happens other way around, and quite often.

However, I believe the OP is talking about on highway use and the load he describes isn't overweight. I think the consensus is for him to look for a more capable tow vehicle than a deuce.

As to the OPS question I recommended a different approach.

 

[dilligaf13]

M931/M932, M923/M925 converted to a tractor or a M915/M916 are all good choices and would handle the load well with much better power and braking capabilities than that on an M35. The least expensive of the options would be M931, next is converted M923, and then the M915 and M916 are the more expensive options but definitely the most capable for on road hauling. The M915 is the best on road hauler of all these but I like the M916 for its 6x6 capability, but you definitely pay more for the M915/M916. My advice when it comes to buying a tow vehicle is get one with more power and braking than is needed because I've never heard anyone say "I wish my truck had less power" or "I wish my truck had a weaker braking system". Plus it'll give you an excuse to get bigger toys to haul...

 

[montaillou]

to look for a more capable tow vehicle than a deuce.

Thought this thread had died out. Thanks for the continued input.

If I had to move it on local, relatively flat roads with a top speed of 25 mph, I think the Deuce would be just fine.

After reading the first few replies, I thought better safe than sorry. Also, if I get in an accident, I don't want to lose my house because insurance tells me I'm not covered. This is not something I need next week and I'm working on a budget (aren't we all?). I need to keep my eyes open for a good deal on a military tractor and a 10 ton trailer with brakes.

A friend has offered up some land where I can store everything (I live on a 1/10th acre lot in a city), so that's one problem out of the way.

I'm also still working on my camper (now tiny home) and thinking of world travel, but not sure if that'll work out and will need to console myself by driving a tracked vehicle instead!

 

[Mullaney]

Thought this thread had died out. Thanks for the continued input.

If I had to move it on local, relatively flat roads with a top speed of 25 mph, I think the Deuce would be just fine.

After reading the first few replies, I thought better safe than sorry. Also, if I get in an accident, I don't want to lose my house because insurance tells me I'm not covered. This is not something I need next week and I'm working on a budget (aren't we all?). I need to keep my eyes open for a good deal on a military tractor and a 10 ton trailer with brakes.

A friend has offered up some land where I can store everything (I live on a 1/10th acre lot in a city), so that's one problem out of the way.

I'm also still working on my camper (now tiny home) and thinking of world travel, but not sure if that'll work out and will need to console myself by driving a tracked vehicle instead!

.
Sounds like you heard what a lot of us wanted you to hear. Just like with guns and "every bullet fired is attached to a lawyer" these trucks, especially bigger ones can be the same way. Some goober ending up with your stuff if you make even a simple error in judgement makes a really bad day.

There are folks like @Csm Davis who has been driving military vehicles since before a lot of the guys here were born. People like him are the folks you need to get advise from - maybe by way of a PM - when you get closer to a vehicle decision. I have talked to him several times over the years and I think he enjoys what he does too.

 

[montaillou]

especially bigger ones

Speaking of that...

I think I'm in love.