Over Drives

[Rich Johnson]

I just scored a transfer case and OD off a Turbo 400.
I paid 300 bucks for it which Seems like a deal. Its opearted by a celoniod.
Its a Laycock J type.
Can anybody tell me anything more about it?

 

[ken]

can you post some more pics? it doesen't look famillar. Thanks

 

[blitzengine]

can you post some more pics? it doesen't look famillar. Thanks

 

[runk]

The Laycock overdrives were used in tons of British sports cars and a lot of the 60's and 70's Volvos. Between my dad and I, we've got 5 Triumphs with them. Usually behind a 4 speed manual, and a bigish 4 cylinder or small straight 6. The solenoid opens flow from an internal hydraulic pump that engages a cone clutch and planetary reduction gears. The transmissions always had a lockout for reverse, running one in OD in reverse will ruin it. Often had lockouts on 1 and 2, so you ended up with a 6 speed transmission. You can shift them without clutching, but it is better for them to clutch during shifts. Racers modify them to handle more power (torque), and remove the 1 and 2 lockouts. Most common failure is the solenoid, then pump (dirty oil, clogged filters [big screen under rectangular cover, different smaller internal filters depending on model), then cone cluch. As long as not run in reverse, the gearsets are pretty bullet proof. Servicing takes some special tools, there are some pretty high pressures and small passages in the pump, and the springs in the clutch are scary. You definitely want to watch someone else do it before you open one up.

Never seen one on an automatic before, wonder what the longevity will be behind a big diesel (compared to a British sports car) ?

 

[PackRatWrecker]

I'm guessing it's an early Gear Vendors Unit. Their units were based off the Laycock, versus the US Gear units, that work more like a 2-speed axle.

Don't give up that adapter. Gear Vendors wants $500 to trade.

 

[akonitony]

I would say a prayer of thanks for that score. You have a $1000 upgrade there as far as I can tell. You might want to invest in a new solenoid before you install it in the vehicle with the money you saved. If it were me, I would get a new torque converter and do a filter change on the 3L80 (AKA TH400), and clean the cooler lines out very well with mineral spirits and compressed air. Then I would change over to Dex-VI synthetic trans fluid and rest assured it was bulletproof after all that. Oh, I would also install a Transgo shift kit at the very least, but would probably opt to do a quick rebuild on the trans as well since those are such easy units to rebuild. I would also modify the direct clutch pack to make it dual fed. Yep, I think that's it for now...

 

[akonitony]

Almost forgot. I would also replace the steels as well as friction plates during the rebuild. That particular model is rather hard on it's steel. Koleen steels and kevlar bands would not be a bad choice either if you ever plan to run a big-block in front of that.

 

[motormayhem]

That looks like a lot of weight on the back of the t-case

 

[Rich Johnson]

I was concerned with the length and weight too, but looking under the truck there is a huge cross member support under the Tcase, and the OD doesnt weigh that much. Also, the long extension for the drive shaft mount comes off the Tcase and is replaced by this thing.

As for all the upgrades that were mentioned, aint going to happen. I appreciate the advice, but Im unemplyed, Ive been for 8 months. Ive been selling OD stuff and volunteering for extra duty to pay bills.

My F-150 died, its tranny dumped with 260k miles, I couldnt justify a 2k plus rebuild after I had just put 1k in repairs 2 months earlier. This truck cost me $2200. A friend of a friend hooked me up. It only has 50k miles on it. I bought it becuse I was absoluty exhausted driving my m38a1 around as my only vehicle. Im really liking the truck now, it gets 17 mpg, I never imagnined that. The only thing I dont like is how loud it when it accelerates. I dont see my wife ever riding in it. Ive had it a month and been driving it for about two weeks now and somehow she has avoided riding in it so far, but she did let me buy it as long as I agreed not to paint it green or camo it.

I found a long article on line on servicing and setting up the OD. All of it leads me to feel that since this thing was sitting in a shed, with duct tape on one end, same for its Tcase mate, that I should have Gear Vendors service it, IE filters seals and stuff, and probably put a new celonoid on as mentioned, and then pay them to install it on the truck. Thats more that I think I am capable of.

Reading that article made me feel like this thing is much like an automatic tranny, a far cry from rebuilding an old M series jeep or dodge engine. I dont want to tacle something I know absolutly nothing about. (side note, I scored a ward OD for my m38a1 from a fellow guardsman two years ago but have not done a thing with it because when I took it out of the box to look at it tons of small pieces fell out of it. I never had enogh money to send it to the Jeep OD guy to get it serviced to install it) This OD is the same, I cant do it so I need to pay to do it. My buddy wants to just do a plug and play job and get my drive shaft hacked, but I know Im in for trouble if I do that. Im sure the OD will get clogged up from not being properly cleaned, and other bad things will happen and I will be left with no truck. So, Ille have to take it slow, and just have somebody do it right when I can afford it. Im going to have this truck for a long time I think. Im not going to be in any shape to buy a modern vehicle for quite a while. I am really glad I didnt by that 4dr wrangler two years ago because I would have come really close or flat not been able to make the payments on it.

As far as more pictures. What do you guys want to see on it? the data plate? The shafts what?

 

[akonitony]

I don't need to see more pics, I'm finished, and looking for a cigarette (even though I don't smoke)
Anyway, not sure if it is possible for you to relocate, but CA is probably the worst state to live in if you're unemployed. Have you ever hurt your back or had any other injuries (The ligitimate type) since you've been with the reserves? If so, make sure they are well documented, and when you get out, go see a DAV officer at the nearest VA hospital and get an eval done. My brother-in-law hurt his back over in Iraq and was rated 30% disabled by the VA (they need patients to keep their budget), and is unemployed now but going to school with the VA paying 100% books and tuition and giving him a stipend to live off of as well.
I would also try and relocate to a more southern state like TN, AL, GA, or even FL where the taxes and living expenses are not so bad. With your spare time, you might want to learn how to rebuild some of those things you were mentioning. Seriously, a TH400 is the easiest trans to build, period. One could rebuild it in a sandbox and it would still probably work fine. No real specialty tools needed either. Anyway, best of blessings toward you. It is a shame someone in the reserves is hurting for money and professional ball players are making millions. Shows how our priorities are screwed, blued, and tatooed.

 

[runk]

Changing out the filters on the overdrive is pretty trivial, you just have to figure out which ones and where they are. You don't have to crack the case to get to any of them, they are all behind covers or plugs. If you have a big drill press (or small milling machine or metal lathe) you can test the OD. When we are checking out an unknown one, we change the oil and filters, chuck it up, bring it to RPM, and put 12V to the solenoid. Most of them work fine, or just need a new solenoid. If it doesn't work there is a guy in our Triumph club who has all the tools to rebuild them, he charges about $250, or we trade. (I don't know anyone in SoCal, but there has got to be someone similar there.)
Also, I agree that you got a deal on the OD, a Triumph transmission with one is worth $1500, as opposed to $100 without (some of the shafts, etc are different internally.) You can get an OD out of a wrecked volvo for about $300, its the adapters etc. that are worth a mint.

Good luck,

 

[Rich Johnson]

Well, if you think merely changing the filters is necessary, I would be willing to give them a go and then to the conversion.
I havent figured out the operation of the thing yet.
Since this is a cucv there arent any existing controll wires to tap into, so I imagine that merly a single pole single throw switch on the dash board to move the celonoid would operate it.
Do you know a source for a tech manual and filters for this thing?

 

[runk]

These are all British car suppliers, I don't know if the one you have is exactly the same. I would expect at least the filters to be the same.
MossMotors.com - Restoration Parts And Accessories For British Cars
Victoria British - Catalog T6 Pages 70 and 71
http://cod.zeni.net/trf/TR6bluebook/T6-V1-Overdrive.pdf

If you want more detailed servicing instructions (again for Triumphs), I've got some .pdf's I can send you. PM me.

Most of the J type solenoids were non-latching, so just wired to 12V through a simple switch when you wanted them engaged, the lockouts on the transmission were normally closed limit switches that open when the transmission is in reverse, 1st or 2nd. Some of the older ones (A and D types) were latching, and had a fancier circuit. If the solenoid gets really hot when powered for more then a few minutes, its an older setup (unlikely on a J type).

 

[Rich Johnson]

I took the OD and Tcase out to Gear Vendors in El Cajon today. They are the rights holders and manufacturers of the Laycock line.
Unfortunealy the J type isnt supported any longer. No parts available. The P type is its replacement and the only one still in production and serviceable.

They tested mine out on the machine, but unfortunately its toast. Bad bearings and planetary, and the coupling from the adapter to the OD is missing. So Im SOL to use this.

What I have good is the adapter and input shaft if I wanted to get another.
What they offered me is an exchange of my J for a P at a cost of $1200. (New a P is 3k, I guess that makes the value of the bad J the difference of the new to exchange cost) then I have to buy the coupler, another $130 and then cut my drive shaft $500. If I did all this and then installed it myself Im looking at no less than $1850, which I havent got.

I cant beleive these things cost so dam much. If you were to put one of these on new you'd be looking at about 4500 bucks or so.

Well, glad I had it checked out before I went and tried to put the POS on my truck. Unfortuneately I now have to find a place to store the dam thing and its Tcase in hopes that someday I may use it. Im kinda betting it will wind up like the Warn OD I have for my m38a1, sitting in a box for years while I drive the vehicle around without it.

 

[UNIMOG-GUY]

So are you interested in selling it as is?