PA residents and the M818 according to PENNDOT

[Sephirothq]

Ok guys
I have spent the better part of the afternoon at the Penn Dot DMV trying to get the proper license to drive the m818 truck legally.

You guys with the M818 or the M52 trucks in PA here is the deal. The bottom line is you need a class A license to drive the truck. Either a noncommercial or a commercial license is required.
The tractor trucks are a Class 17 on the registration. You can not drive these trucks with a class B license.

Even if they are antique trucks you can not drive them with a class C due to the weight of the trucks the GVW.

I didn't ask what would happen if I had the GVW set down to 26,000 lbs.

According to the antique tags you can not haul cargo. PennDot is getting back to me on whether i can have a trailer behind the truck.

Even to drive the truck Bobtail you need a class A license.

That is from the head of the CDL department in PennDot.

All that being said. I only know this to be true for PA. The above is what i was informed by the PennDot folks in Harrisburg. If you guys know better go for it.

I am going to be legal you other guys can do what you want to do.

 

[lsansone]

so what do they have to say about the antique vehicle status?


This information is on the PENNDOT web page:

"[FONT=Courier New,Courier New]Commercial motor vehicle.[/FONT]" A motor vehicle designed or used to transport passengers or property:
(1) if the vehicle has a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 or more pounds or such lesser rating as the department shall adopt under the provisions of section 6103(c) (relating to promulgation of rules and regulations by department), as determined by Federal regulation and published by the department as a notice in the Pennsylvania Bulletin;
(2) if the vehicle is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver;
(3) if the vehicle is a school bus; or
(4) if the vehicle is transporting hazardous materials and is required to be placarded in accordance with department regulations.
The term does not include an antique or classic motor vehicle, or an implement of husbandry, or any motor home or recreational trailer operated solely for personal use, or motorized construction equipment, including, but not limited to, motorscrapers, backhoes, motorgraders, compactors, excavators, tractors, trenchers and bulldozers.


are you planning on getting a commerical or antique plate?

 

[Sephirothq]

I have an antique plate on the truck now and the registration states antique.
​

 

[paulfarber]

You are correct on everything. Class A license, no CDL for personal use.

I have an Antique plated jeep and tow a trailer (1/4 ton). *technically* the letter of the law is *NO* CARGO.

How often is that enforced? How many people got a ticket for it?

I plan to put a 1 ton trailer behind my CCKW, technically I cannot have people in the bed, or cargo.

Now, you put a 818 on the road with classic plates and a lowboy and a backhoe on top???? Get the wrong cop and your day will suck.

That same 818, same lowboy but a group of midget football players? Not gonna get a second look (unless you're on 81 doing 60 )

We all know the correct answer is get regular plates, get proper insurance, and follow the laws. Skirt the rules and haul with antique/classic plates and if/when you get caught (or have an accident) you just make the entire hobby look like we don't know what we are doing.

"USE OF ANTIQUE AND CLASSIC REGISTRATION PLATES
The use of Antique and Classic registration plates is governed by Section 1340 of the Pennsylvania Vehicle Code, which states: “It is unlawful for any person to operate a motorcycle or vehicle with antique and classic registration plates for general daily transportation. Permitted use shall be limited to participation in club activities, exhibits, tours, parades, occasional transportation and similar uses.” Occasional transportation and similar uses is defined as one day a week.
Although buses and trucks are eligible for Antique and Classic registration plates, buses MAY NOT be used to transport passengers and trucks MAY NOT haul cargo.
Antique and Classic registration plates are not available for motorized pedalcycles or motor homes."

I would ask for clarification if a trailer is cargo.... my guess is no... but a quick call to DMV should clear it up.

 

[Ord22]

i'm looking to get a m816 and i wonder what i would need for it to be legal? i.e license, reg etc....

 

[Sephirothq]

I am not looking to haul with my m818.
I am just looking to take my driver's test and be legal when driving it.
So it seems even to be bobtail with an m818 i need a class a license,
I do not need a CDL, a non commercial license would work as well.

 

[gunboy1656]

So it seems even to be bobtail with an m818 i need a class a license

Well I know a LOT of people breaking the law all the time. they work for a shop and have to test drive all the trucks they work on, and they drive bob tail all the time and only have class B CDL licenses.

As I was told by the DMV, they describe cargo as anything hauled for profit.

 

[lsansone]

seems like we are talking in circles here. PA seems to be very clear that antique plates on a truck, and the truck being used as an antique EXEMPT you from needing a CDL of any type. Many states are not nearly that clear on this. So the OP wants to be "legal" - you have antique plates, use the truck as it is inteneded with those plates and you do not need a CDL -period. now if you want to get one, fine. But if you are not going to be hauling stuff then you don't need one from reading your regs.

I am looking to get my CDL B in CT just to have it - someday the regs may get more restrictive, but all of the DMV guys I talked to told me the same thing. Antique plates used properly ( dont haul stuff , even personal stuff in CT) exempt you from a CDL. I am legal as far as I can see.


the cost to go commercial is also a big consideration.

If I were to put commerical plates on my 817, just the registration would be $700 per year due to the weight. Then I have to pay for the annual heavy truck inspection as well. I have one truck with commercial insurance and that is $1000 just for my duelly.

best wishes
lou

 

[Sephirothq]

You still need a noncommercial license for an antique vehicle

(4) if the vehicle is transporting hazardous materials and is required to be placarded in accordance with department regulations.
The term does not include an antique or classic motor vehicle, or an implement of husbandry, or any motor home or recreational trailer operated solely for personal use, or motorized construction equipment, including, but not limited to, motorscrapers, backhoes, motorgraders, compactors, excavators, tractors, trenchers and bulldozers.


or any motor home or recreational trailer operated solely for personal use,

Now look up the use for a noncommercial license.

Non-commercial Driver's Licenses

• CLASS A (minimum age 1: Required to operate any combination of vehicles with a gross weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, where the vehicle(s) being towed is/are in excess of 10,000 pounds. Example: Recreational Vehicle, when the towing vehicle is rated at 11,000 pounds and the vehicle towed is rated at 15,500 pounds (total combination weight of 26,500 pounds).
• CLASS B (minimum age 1: Required to operate any single vehicle rated in excess of 26,000 pounds. Example: Motor homes rated at 26,001 pounds or more.
• CLASS C (minimum age 16): A Class C driver’s license will be issued to persons 16 years of age or older, who have demonstrated their qualifications to operate any vehicles, except those requiring a Class M qualification, and who do not meet the definitions of Class A or Class B. Any firefighter or member of a rescue or emergency squad who is the holder of a Class C driver’s license and who has a certificate of authorization from a fire chief or head of the rescue or emergency squad will be authorized to operate any fire or emergency vehicle registered to that fire department, rescue or emergency squad or municipality(emergency use only). The holder of a Class C license is authorized to drive a motor-driven cycle with an automatic transmission and cylinder capacity of 50 CCs or less or a 3-wheeled motorcycle with an enclosed cab.

look at the two examples

Example: Recreational Vehicle, when the towing vehicle is rated at 11,000 pounds and the vehicle towed is rated at 15,500 pounds (total combination weight of 26,500 pounds).

Example: Motor homes rated at 26,001 pounds or more.


So if you look at the exempt for commercial it states a motor home. and if you look in the examples for a noncommercial license it states a motor home.
Even though the non commercial doesn't spell out antique it would be in the same category as the motor home / RV.

Bottom line you can't drive a vehicle over 26,000 GVW with a class C.

 

[battlebuggy]

Hi Guys; When reading all the various threads on Lic Classes and CDL needs etc, one thing keeps coming up. What are these "non-commercial" class A licenses? In MA it seems that there are Class A, B, C and D. Regular lic up to 26000 is the Class D. It is not a CDL. But Class A and B are for the Tractors etc and the Class B is for the heavy straight trucks, plus then there is the Class C and they are all CDL licenses. There are no non-commercial Class A or B licenses. You just get a Class A or B and be done with it. If you need to use it commercial then you have to comply with the FMVSA stuff like the med cards etc. Why are all the states different on this? What a crazy country wee live in or should I say "collection of different countries"!

Does make your head spin. LOL

 

[doghead]

What makes my head spin is, when a guy posts a very specific issue(Pennsylvania laws) and other people from other states post on the thread, only confusing matters!

 

[kastein]

Hi Guys; When reading all the various threads on Lic Classes and CDL needs etc, one thing keeps coming up. What are these "non-commercial" class A licenses? In MA it seems that there are Class A, B, C and D. Regular lic up to 26000 is the Class D. It is not a CDL. But Class A and B are for the Tractors etc and the Class B is for the heavy straight trucks, plus then there is the Class C and they are all CDL licenses. There are no non-commercial Class A or B licenses. You just get a Class A or B and be done with it. If you need to use it commercial then you have to comply with the FMVSA stuff like the med cards etc. Why are all the states different on this? What a crazy country wee live in or should I say "collection of different countries"!

Does make your head spin. LOL

Yep... going through the same thing right now for my M54A2.

Like DH said though, this is about PA not MA, I'm really starting to wish I lived in PA instead!

Sad thing is, my M54A2 weighs just under 20k, and will never weigh over 24k (nevermind 26) even fully loaded, but the title says GWVR of 39 and change, so... CDL/class A or B here I come.

 

[paulfarber]

If anyone can find anything specific to 'Class A License' (other than the weight allowances) on the PA DMV web site let me know

I think you would be simply taking the general knowledge course but the driving test would be in your Class A vehicle.

One place that might be a source of info is RV dealers. They sell some pretty big rigs and would at least have to know about Class B licenses as most motor homes would be in that weight range.

If you put a 10,000 trailer and vehicle behind your motor home you are now PA Class A territory... so they most likely have some good answers.

Wonder how many DMV road testers have sat in an M35 for a Class A road test? I would *love* to show up in say an M25 Dragon Wagon and see if they really want to see me parallel part it.

 

[muthkw25]

Ok guys
I have spent the better part of the afternoon at the Penn Dot DMV trying to get the proper license to drive the m818 truck legally.

You guys with the M818 or the M52 trucks in PA here is the deal. The bottom line is you need a class A license to drive the truck. Either a noncommercial or a commercial license is required.
The tractor trucks are a Class 17 on the registration. You can not drive these trucks with a class B license.

Even if they are antique trucks you can not drive them with a class C due to the weight of the trucks the GVW.

I didn't ask what would happen if I had the GVW set down to 26,000 lbs.

According to the antique tags you can not haul cargo. PennDot is getting back to me on whether i can have a trailer behind the truck.

Even to drive the truck Bobtail you need a class A license.

That is from the head of the CDL department in PennDot.

All that being said. I only know this to be true for PA. The above is what i was informed by the PennDot folks in Harrisburg. If you guys know better go for it.

I am going to be legal you other guys can do what you want to do.

If the truck is a personal vehicle and is not being used commerically. It should not be a problem with your standard license because the vehicle is under 26,000 pounds. I wonder why the State would tell you that when there website states the exceptions.

 

[battlebuggy]

Class A and Class B are license classes that are standardized nationwide now. Class B will allow driving of a non-Class A vehicle regardless of weight. So the weight has nothing to do with this situation presented by the M818. This truck is a tractor. ALL tractors must be operated by a Class A operator. Period. It does not matter if it is used in commerce or privately, or is an antique etc. Class A is required for a tractor. A CDL Class A is what all states require or are going to to standardize. The is NO difference between a Class A CDL and a so-called non-commercial Class A lic. as far as the vehicle types that can be operated. The difference is that a vehicle operated in COMMERCE, requires that under FMCSA regs you must adhere to Medical Cert. and Logbook rules. Most states you use the same CDL but simply are Federally exempt either in Intrastate or Interstate operation from the commercial rules when operating privately non-commercial. It is for people that do not understand the federal rules, which includes a lot of cops that some states actually have the non-commercial Class A. For the rest of them the driver simply knows the difference in what he can do regarding commercial operation. Hope this helps.

If the truck is a personal vehicle and is not being used commerically. It should not be a problem with your standard license because the vehicle is under 26,000 pounds. I wonder why the State would tell you that when there website states the exceptions.

 

[Sephirothq]

Also they are referring to the Gross vehicle weight, what the vehicle is capable of carrying, not the empty weight. Using the empty weight only can get you into problems.