Parallel operation of MEP-002A or MEP-003A, with video

[Triple Jim]

Thanks SZ, this stuff is really interesting.

Lee, I was thinking that, but hesitant to open the can of worms on the forum. It should work fine, but yesterday I ran through the numbers with my son, and 1 kWh of electricity from the power company costs us about 10 cents. One kWh of power from the 003A costs about 33 cents just for diesel fuel. The waste oil guys will do better, but I have a feeling the generator maintenance will make long term generation to make money a failing proposition even for them.

Solar panels are down to around $1/Watt now, which is starting to make them more interesting than they were a few years ago. If you live on a river and have 30 or 40 feet of head, you could get a small Francis turbine and generator head. That should really work well.

 

[sewerzuk]

Found a good pic of a synchroscope similar to the mil ones we used:

 

[sewerzuk]

Lee, I was thinking that, but hesitant to open the can of worms on the forum. It should work fine, but yesterday I ran through the numbers with my son, and 1 kWh of electricity from the power company costs us about 10 cents. One kWh of power from the 003A costs about 33 cents just for diesel fuel. The waste oil guys will do better, but I have a feeling the generator maintenance will make long term generation to make money a failing proposition even for them.

This is how I deal with my surplus waste oil...most often during the summer when my furnace isn't consuming enough of it. But I don't parallel my generator with commercial power
When I need to get rid of an extra 20 or 30 gallons, I just switch over to generator power and make sure I have lots of electrical loads running (make sure to do a couple of loads of laundry, run the welder and air compressor, etc.).
It certainly would be more efficient just to parallel with CP and run your meter backwards for a few hours with the generator at 100% load, but without the proper equipment, permit, and power company permission I would worry about irritating the wrong person. But...yes, it is possible to do.
As you stated, I think that long term maintenance on a small generator would offset any power savings. It might pencil out a little better with a bigger generator, but probably still not worth the effort.

 

[Triple Jim]

What kind of waste oil do you burn in the generator, what filtering or processing do you do, and is the injection system on my 003A able to do this safely too?

 

[sewerzuk]

What kind of waste oil do you burn in the generator, what filtering or processing do you do, and is the injection system on my 003A able to do this safely too?

The -002a/-003a run fine on WMO.
I have a centrifuge setup that I have been using for a few years. Initially I installed it to clean waste oil for running in my other non-highway equipment, but I discovered that purifying the oil with the centrifuge also cut down on the maintenance/cleaning on my shop furnace. So now, I push about 150-200 gallons/month through my setup. 90% of my oil comes from a local logging outfit; they separate it into separate barrels (hydraulic fluid, 15W40 mineral oil, and unknown/mixed). I burn everything I can get during the winter, but during the summer I have a bit of a surplus so it finds its way into my MEP powered log splitter and my personal generators. I only put the 15W40 in the engines, as it is the only oil I can be assured doesn't have something funny in it. I do usually have some diesel mixed in there, but I have run up to 80% WMO with no problem.
Despite what you might see others post (there is always going to be that guy who says he's run 100,000 miles on unfiltered oil poured right into his tank), a filter alone is NOT enough to ensure that the oil is clean enough to send through an injection pump. I was filtering through 3 separate spin on elements (last one was a 5 micron) and a set of rare earth magnets for a while, but the amount of sludge that built up in my "clean" tank convinced me to switch to a centrifuge. It is amazing the amount of junk it pulls out after the oil has passed through the filters.

 

[Triple Jim]

I guess that brings up the next question: What does it take to buy or build a suitable centrifuge?

Edit: I see that this has been asked before in other threads, so we can end the hijack if you prefer.

 

[o1951]

It is possible to sync the sets exactly prior to paralleling. However, I've found that it is much easier to place a small load on one generator, and then set up the incoming generator with a slightly higher frequency. If I attempt to parallel them at exactly the same frequency, one tends to reverse power the other one.

For Vietnam, we put a lot of ships that were mothballed at the end of WWII back into service. I was on a Victory. When in port, we needed both alternators to unload cargo. We did not have a syncroscope, and paralleled with lightbulb, exactly as Sewerzuk did. The incoming alternator has to be running slightly faster so it will take load when the breaker is closed. As he says, if it was running at the same speed, it could motor and reverse current relay would trip. Later, when I was on ships made in the 1950's, we had a syncroscope, and again paralleled with incoming running faster - clockwise on syncroscope.
I load test by paralleling with utility. I use 2-120 volt bulbs in series and follow the same proceedure - incoming gen running about 1 HZ faster than utility.

 

[Triple Jim]

I load test by paralleling with utility. I use 2-120 volt bulbs in series and follow the same proceedure - incoming gen running about 1 HZ faster than utility.

Hmmm...

 

[ETN550]

The 002 and 003 are prechambered engines and use pintle style nozzles which is most common for prechambered engines. This represents the most forgiving and favorable combustion chamber design for WMO and WVO setups. No changes in the nozzle, delivery valve, or pump timing are probably needed. WVO is notorious for disolving rubber fuel hoses and rubber parts in the fuel system. For WVO it would either need to be seriously diluted or do a religious changeout of the rubber parts. (Or just have a bunch of spares on hand!) The pump and nozzle "should" be able to handle somewhat higher vis WMO but there is a limit. Injection pressures can skyrocket at high loads and high viscosity. This in turn can damage the pump drive parts, plungers, and cam ring, potentially. Just speaking generically. Heating the oil and thinning it #1D or Kerosene ideally, would be good. The filtering is important. Again, the pintle nozzle is very good at handling poorly filtered fuel so operational problems would not be expected. Shorter life on the pump plungers, delivery valve, and nozzle tip might be expected if only nominal 5 micron filtering is done. 2 micron would be acceptable. The centrifuge Sewerzuk speaks of is very effective and only limited by the throughput and residence time.

 

[steelandcanvas]

Thanks Zuk, very "enlightening" video.

 

[LuckyDog]

Lee,

You're a freakin' bubble head....

You guys are never right after going down....

Thanks for this video and discussion. I am trying to get it linked into the wiki.

 

[Triple Jim]

I use 2-120 volt bulbs in series and follow the same proceedure - incoming gen running about 1 HZ faster than utility.

I've been thinking about this. It would be better to use three in series, since when the generators are out of phase the peak is about 340 Volts.

 

[leedawg]

Lee,

You're a freakin' bubble head....

You guys are never right after going down....

Thanks for this video and discussion. I am trying to get it linked into the wiki.

Lol not sure I follow your reference

 

[sewerzuk]

Lol not sure I follow your reference

Reference to submariners...
My avatar is the submarine warfare pin...
I kind of assumed he was talking about me

 

[leedawg]

Reference to submariners...
My avatar is the submarine warfare pin...
I kind of assumed he was talking about me

LOL yeah cant say I was ever a Submariner that would make sense.

Thanks again sewerzuk you always add a lot to this board and I enjoy reading your posts and watching the videos.

 

[trukhead]

Sewerzuk, Thank You very much for your video and other contributions to the forum. I finally have the courage to: give My MEP002A a checkover for the fuel, IP and other things mentioned in other threads, and once it checks out start it. I have a Fluke VOM and an old oscilloscope. I want to maybe even acquire a second 002A and try this method for increased capacity. It makes total sense to do this. My Mep002A has 6 hours on the clock and it still has the nibs on the tires and looks like brand new but I will check it over well before starting it. Awesome Video and other explanations on other generator topics!

 

[LuckyDog]

Reference to submariners...
My avatar is the submarine warfare pin...
I kind of assumed he was talking about me

Yeah, my bad. I thought sewerzuk's name was Lee.

 

[sewerzuk]

Yeah, my bad. I thought sewerzuk's name was Lee.

Nope...it's Matt.
Pleased to meet you!

 

[tstone]

Matt, great video and very informative information from everyone. The question I have is in the connection to the sechronization bulb; do you have this wired from both receptacles in series? If it is in parallel wouldent each of the individual circuits feed over to the oposite generator and cause potential damage (or trip the small breaker)due to being out of phase? Thanks for the info.

Tom

 

[sewerzuk]

Matt, great video and very informative information from everyone. The question I have is in the connection to the sechronization bulb; do you have this wired from both receptacles in series? If it is in parallel wouldent each of the individual circuits feed over to the oposite generator and cause potential damage (or trip the small breaker)due to being out of phase? Thanks for the info.

Tom

The neutrals are not connected to anything, and the "hot" legs are connected to each end of the light bulb. Since the bulb acts as a load and not a solid conductor, no more current will pass through the individual receptacles than passes through the light bulb. So, no worries about current spikes, breaker trips, etc.