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Parking brake questions

coachgeo

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One of those stupid questions.... feel free to roll eyes.

> with parking air brake on; both front AND rear wheels should lock right?

> with air drained from tanks..... both front and rear brakes should lock right?

> if front does not lock in either scenario then they are caged?
 

Ronmar

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One of those stupid questions.... feel free to roll eyes.
> with parking air brake on; both front AND rear wheels should lock right?
No. Only rear brakes have dual acting air cylinders and receive park air to release(compress) the park/emergency brake springs.

> with air drained from tanks..... both front and rear brakes should lock right?
No, only the rear brakes have the dual acting air cylinders, one side of which contain the spring actuators.
> if front does not lock in either scenario then they are caged?
No. Front actuators do not have park springs and do not receive park air...

TM 9-2320-365-20-1 the pneumatic diagrams begin on page 1691.
 
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Suprman

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Only the rear brakes have springs. Air keeps them off. When in park it takes the air away and the springs apply the brakes. Same when you are driving and step on the brake pedal. The front brakes are only service brakes, the rears have a piggy back service system also. So when you step on the brake pedal it also sends air to the service brake system to apply the brakes. You don’t get service brake application in park though. Unless you are also stepping on the brake pedal. Service brakes alone are minimally effective. The spring brakes are what really stops your truck.
 

Ronmar

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Service brakes alone are minimally effective. The spring brakes are what really stops your truck.
I disagree with this part of your description.

Every air system I have ever played with, The springs are not used in normal braking. When park air was applied, the springs are taken completely out of the equation(caged with air pressure). The springs only apply about the equivelent of 60 psi of Service air pressure anyway, hence the need to achieve 60+ psi in the park circuit to overcome them...

In the event of a primary air system failure, however, the “inversion valve” compares primary air from the tank with secondary air supplied by the pedal. If the applied secondary air overcomes the primary air applied to the valve, the valve vents park air from the actuators(modulates the spring braking force using secondary air) and allows the springs to provide some rear braking force...
 

scottmandu

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When there is an air failure you don't want the front brakes to lock up resulting in the loss of all directional control.
 

Awesomeness

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Service brakes alone are minimally effective. The spring brakes are what really stops your truck.
The spring brakes apply less pressure than the air brakes can. The springs brakes are never used to stop the truck under normal conditions... they are continuously held disengaged by air pressure, once you pull that parking brake knob.
 

Suprman

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Ok. So the lmtv can suffer from an intermittent brake loss situation. I always thought it was loss of spring brakes and only the service brakes were functioning. Maybe I had it backwards and the truck would loose service brakes and only the springs were working. In that situation you still have some brake ability but only around 20 percent of normal.
 

Awesomeness

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Even though they push through the same shaft, think of them as not being connected. You have two completely separate ways for the brakes to be applied. (I'll lay it out here for others that might come looking.)

1.) Service brakes: When you push the pedal, it lets air in the service brake chambers and pushes on the brakes to apply them.

2.) Spring brakes / emergency brakes: By default (e.g. no air pressure), big springs push on the brakes, applying them. When you push the yellow knob in the truck, you inflate a chamber that pulls these off, so that they are no longer applying the brakes. If a condition occurs where air pressure is lost and drops below about 60PSI (e.g. leak, pushed the pedal too many times, pulled the yellow knob back out), there is not enough air to keep these from applying as so they start to push on the brakes again automatically (by default, until air pressure gets back inside it to remove them).

The spring brakes are pretty powerful, but don't quite generate as much force as the service brake chambers can when the truck is at full pressure. It varies based on the design of the system, but they probably create 60-80% the force of the service brakes.

It's difficult, but there are a couple situations where you could lose all brakes. They make it unlikely on purpose, but nothing is foolproof. If you still have good air pressure in the tanks (e.g. >60PSI), and the yellow knob is pushed, there is enough pressure being supplied to disengage the spring brakes. If you then have an issue that blocks air from getting from your pedal to the service brake chambers, you would have no brakes (unless you pulled out the yellow knob). There are a number of things that could prevent air from getting from the pedal to the service brakes, but they are most likely to occur where you have single points of failure (e.g. it won't happen if you get a crack in one line to one wheel's service brake(s), because air would still be reaching the other 3 wheels and stop the truck), such as a failure in the pedal's valve, the supply line to the pedal valve, etc. Even then, that's why you have both front and back tanks, so that you intentionally have two separate systems that must also fail simultaneously, eliminating most single points of failure. Even the pedal valve is probably two completely separate valves inside, stuck together on the outside (single housing), so that one internal valve can fail and you can still stop the truck.

This is also the danger of caging the rear brakes, and doing anything more than temporarily moving the truck. If anything else goes wrong, you've got zero brakes.

EDIT: Corrected because previously I was saying "pull the yellow knob", but I have reversed it to say "push they yellow knob", to avoid confusion in the future.
 
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Suprman

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Over time the tube with fins air dryer dosnt do it’s job putting moisture into the air system and gunk builds up in the inversion and anti compounding valves. I replaced both of them and the treadle after that situation. There is a thread from a while back same thing happened and I caused an accident.
 

Ronmar

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Yep moisture and crap in the system are the real weakness of air brakes.

Great description Awesomeness except you got the yellow park knob function backwards. You PULL it to vent park air and set the park brakes. You push it in to apply park air, compress the springs and release the park brakes. Done this way I suppose so something like a dropped thermos of coffee dosnt set the park brakes while you are motoring down the highway:)
 
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