Piper L4 Grasshopper

[PorscheTech911]

Thanks DKELONE, I've not asked the local schools at Mt. Hawley if they have tail wheel trainers or not, but I will ask. I know it's expensive to get the training. I work at CAT fulltime on the weekends and any money I make at the airport will be extra to go towards lessons and other toys. I'm aware of the cost (about 8500 from Allmond Aviation school at Mt. Hawley) and how much it costs to own/fly a plane. I have a GREAT paying job now, and can afford one or two of my childhood dreams and I want to do this before marriage/kids come along. I'll send you a PM next week and see if your free to talk to me and Hollis (I'm Adam) who is my friend that will be working at the airport and going for his license as well.

I didn't realize there were so many private pilots on this site. Thats great!

 

[DKELONE]

Quite a few & several other airline types as well

 

[PorscheTech911]

Well I just got off the phone with Allmond Aviation here in Peoria, and they do have a tail wheel trainer. It's a 1946 Aeronca Champ, pretty close to the Piper Cub, so I'm going to make a point to get the cert. on that and lots of flight time with it as well as the others.

I found some online courses and books to help augment my training and give me a basic idea of what's going on before I start. DKELONE what days are you free to meet up? Next week on the 9th or 10th would be best for us. Ever been to the Spotted Cow? They've got great food there if you want to meet at 12pm or 1pm. Lemme know thanks!

 

[DKELONE]

Retired, available most all of the time. I'm heading north for the iola mv show on tues 8/10 so lets plan on 8/9 @ noon--ok?? I'll pm cell #

 

[PorscheTech911]

Got the PM, will call you tomorrow. Monday the 9th works perfect for me.


Anyone with some experience with the Piper Cub, does it have a 12gal fuel tank? Does the L4 have the same PLUS an 8gal wing tank?

I've seen some conflicting info on this and would like to get it straightened out. I did find out that I can upgrade/install a 10-13gal tank in the wings. I'd do that when I re-wrapped the plane. I don't think I'll be buying a plane anytime soon, I'm just curious for future reference. I don't want anyone thinking I'm getting ahead of myself. I can't wait to get my licenses though!

 

[vtdeucedriver]

Got the PM, will call you tomorrow. Monday the 9th works perfect for me.


Anyone with some experience with the Piper Cub, does it have a 12gal fuel tank? Does the L4 have the same PLUS an 8gal wing tank?

I've seen some conflicting info on this and would like to get it straightened out. I did find out that I can upgrade/install a 10-13gal tank in the wings. I'd do that when I re-wrapped the plane. I don't think I'll be buying a plane anytime soon, I'm just curious for future reference. I don't want anyone thinking I'm getting ahead of myself. I can't wait to get my licenses though!

12 Gal tank up front is stock for the L-4. There is a STC to install a 8 gal wing tank and that is not stock for the L-4 or a J-3. The Continental 65 engine was rated for 80 Aviation octane gas but they no longer produce it. At the airport its 100LL and that is fine but you can also get the STC to use auto gas. But that being said, make sure that its ethanol free.

If you got anymore J-3 questions, I have worked on them in the past for a banner tow outfit in S. fla and have restored a stock one.

 

[PorscheTech911]

Thanks VT! Thats great info!

How hard/easy is it to get the STC? Using automotive fuel would be nice instead of avgas, BUT that leads to another question. If the airstrip doesn't have mogas, but has 100LL, can they be mixed? And mogas doesn't have enough lead, and 100LL has to much lead. Is that going to be a problem on the A64 Continental or the A-90-8F?


Do you mind as things progress that I bounce questions off you? Especially if I do end up getting ahold of a Piper J-3 or L4? Thanks!

 

[vtdeucedriver]

Thanks VT! Thats great info!

How hard/easy is it to get the STC? Using automotive fuel would be nice instead of avgas, BUT that leads to another question. If the airstrip doesn't have mogas, but has 100LL, can they be mixed? And mogas doesn't have enough lead, and 100LL has to much lead. Is that going to be a problem on the A64 Continental or the A-90-8F?


Do you mind as things progress that I bounce questions off you? Especially if I do end up getting ahold of a Piper J-3 or L4? Thanks!

Yes its ok to mix the fuel, we used to have a stuck valve issue on our cubs in the winter months until we started to add 100LL to the MOGAS truck, so that helped.

STC, not a problem.

No problem with the questions. When your ready to buy, let me know. I got a friend that currently has 4 J-3 projects to be put together, who knows, he may put together another L-4.

 

[PorscheTech911]

Looks like maybe and thats a big maybe next year I may start looking at buying a plane. Depends on the price your buddy wants for the J-3 cause of course the OD Addiction is strong on my end and I'd much rather wait another year and find the perfect L4 from the War if I can.

The info about the fuel really puts me at ease so thank you for that. How do you get an STC to use mogas?


Doghead, you mentioned last night you've flown a bit, are you going for you license? I'd like to hear from someone who is also newer to it and what things to know to help the learning curve. Thankya

 

[rwbrown72]

Thanks VT! Thats great info!

How hard/easy is it to get the STC? Using automotive fuel would be nice instead of avgas, BUT that leads to another question. If the airstrip doesn't have mogas, but has 100LL, can they be mixed? And mogas doesn't have enough lead, and 100LL has to much lead. Is that going to be a problem on the A64 Continental or the A-90-8F?


Do you mind as things progress that I bounce questions off you? Especially if I do end up getting ahold of a Piper J-3 or L4? Thanks!

Hard to find gas without ethanol around here. Even harder to taxi up to the pump. LOL

 

[PorscheTech911]

It certainly is, I'd have to call every airfield on my flightplan (and my emergency fields) to see if they even have mogas pumps. Is there an alternative? Or is there something you can do to 100LL to make it safer to use in the older engine? Or are we talking engine swaps cause I really don't think I'd want to do that.


Thought I'd throw in some photos for fun and to keep ya'll interested

 

[rwbrown72]

100 LL will work great in the old engines. The lead is great for the engine, but bad for the environment. Hence the push for eliminating it. There is a big push by the EPA and the FAA to find another suitable replacement fuel. If you could figure that one out, you could afford any airplane you want and hire me to fly it.

 

[vtdeucedriver]

100 LL will work great in the old engines. The lead is great for the engine, but bad for the environment. Hence the push for eliminating it. There is a big push by the EPA and the FAA to find another suitable replacement fuel. If you could figure that one out, you could afford any airplane you want and hire me to fly it.

Yep, 100LL is preferred. Dont know what were going to do if they get rid of 100LL. There is talk within the N3N owners about autogas and there is one STC for it but that is for the original Wright engine. Only a handful like ourselves have them still over the bigger engines that are usually installed during their life as cropdusters.

 

[vtdeucedriver]

It certainly is, I'd have to call every airfield on my flightplan (and my emergency fields) to see if they even have mogas pumps. Is there an alternative? Or is there something you can do to 100LL to make it safer to use in the older engine? Or are we talking engine swaps cause I really don't think I'd want to do that.


Thought I'd throw in some photos for fun and to keep ya'll interested

You need to pickup a copy of "Box Seat Over ****" Its a great read!!!

If you want a L-4, do yourself a favor and start looking for the CORRECT Air box. They are not that common and are standard for the L-4. Dont waste your time with the RCA radios and start looking for the MB jeep radio and antenna set up.

If you go the rca route, hold your wallet. I sold the trailing reel antenna for one a year ago and it went for over $700 bucks!!!

 

[PorscheTech911]

Sounds interesting. When the time comes I'll ask about all that again so you can guide me through that as well.

On the fuel subject, what about that Swift Fuel? I read about that, and it seemed promising, but didn't research much more after that.

 

[jwaller]

I hold an ATP with type ratings in lear 20, 30 and 40 series. I'm on a charter trip to FXE right now. so if you have any questions on that part of the biz feel free to ask.

I loved flying the small stuff, it's all about personal preference. I like flying but to me it's a job and when something becomes your job and you have to do it because it's your living it will lose some of it's fun factor. I have to go to the simulator every 6 months on one airplane or another. I'm away from home almost 5 days a week. sometimes more. but I get to drive some of the fastest and most badaXX stuff in the civy world.

Buy a cub, have fun with it. save yourself some money and get your A&P while your at it.
Even though it's a cub it still won't be cheap and if you plan on making trips with it, it won't save you any money either.

Don't even think of landing on a road or even a field unless it's a true emergency. All you need is 1 person to report you and make your life H*ll.

 

[PorscheTech911]

I've thought about the job thing and know it's not for me. I just want to fly for leisure. I do really want an L4, but that may all change once I start flying who knows.

Why do you say its so expensive? I definitely don't know all the costs that goes into it, but I can't see where its so incredibly expensive like some people say. Some say its not much more expensive to own your own plane like that than it is to own a BMW. I certainly know it wont be as cheap as a deuce to own.

And also I don't know the 'rules' but why is it so 'illegal to land in a field (if the owner is ok with it)? I would NEVER land on a road unless it was life or death. But I ask because I see alot of videos with people landing on fields and private airfields when doing events and such and don't see why it would matter as long as the owner permits it.




DISCLAIMER: I just want everyone to know that this thread is for INFORMATIONAL/KNOWLEDGE purposes ONLY. I DO know being a new pilot and not having ANY experience makes alot of what I'm asking about impossible for many YEARS. I'm just trying to get a broad view and learn what I can from people more knowledgeable than myself. I WILL NOT land in any fields or roads at anytime for many years. Thanks!

I promise I'm not trying to back talk or say your wrong, but I want to know the reasons why so if you know please please let me know Thanks!

 

[doghead]

Money, that's the biggest reason I don't fly.

 

[stumps]

I suppose the main issue with landing on a friendly farmer's field is you have to stay above 500 feet when crossing the neighbor's property. Unless the field is very large, it can make for interesting landings and takeoffs.

And, if the neighbors get annoyed and call the FAA, you will have to explain yourself.

-Chuck

 

[jwaller]

I've thought about the job thing and know it's not for me. I just want to fly for leisure. I do really want an L4, but that may all change once I start flying who knows.

Why do you say its so expensive? I definitely don't know all the costs that goes into it, but I can't see where its so incredibly expensive like some people say. Some say its not much more expensive to own your own plane like that than it is to own a BMW. I certainly know it wont be as cheap as a deuce to own.

And also I don't know the 'rules' but why is it so 'illegal to land in a field (if the owner is ok with it)? I would NEVER land on a road unless it was life or death. But I ask because I see alot of videos with people landing on fields and private airfields when doing events and such and don't see why it would matter as long as the owner permits it.





DISCLAIMER: I just want everyone to know that this thread is for INFORMATIONAL/KNOWLEDGE purposes ONLY. I DO know being a new pilot and not having ANY experience makes alot of what I'm asking about impossible for many YEARS. I'm just trying to get a broad view and learn what I can from people more knowledgeable than myself. I WILL NOT land in any fields or roads at anytime for many years. Thanks!

I promise I'm not trying to back talk or say your wrong, but I want to know the reasons why so if you know please please let me know Thanks!

It's expensive because everything you buy for it will be about 3 times what it's really worth. if you want your ac to be correctly and legally maintained then you will have to pay a mechanic a lot of money to do your yearly inspections and he will find things that must be replaced. oil changes and plug changes and brakes are borderline stuff that the aopa says owners can do but don't let them tell you what is right.

whats right and what gets settled in court after your dead and gone are 2 different things.


A good annual will run from 1-4k depending on who does what and how.
Insurance can be low if you don't want much coverage. aopa can help there too.
Fuel ranges from 3-6 or more depending on where you go and how you want to arrive.
you will never be able to buy enough fuel anywhere to waive ramp fees or landing fees but most fbo's will give you a pass if you buy some.