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Piston Rings Worn Out, Time for a Rebuild

Wildchild467

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Milford / Michigan
With mine, I had no signs at all of head gasket leakage. I had two other people look at it and no signs of leakage on the gasket or the surfaces.

I really really hope you had better luck than me. What is your plan for a break in procedure?
 

mark salanco

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I will run it hard till coolant temp comes up, I'll check for leaks etc.
Will take it on the interstate and run the crap out of it for 4 hours.
Retorque the heads, then run it hard for a few more hours.
 

country

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Supporting Vendor
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Feasterville, Pennsylvania
I just got an email from Steve who is the General Manager at Eastern Surplus who said that their description and part numbers on their site are correct when they are clearly not even when I corrected them with the TM. If the description is correct that it fits LDT pistons as well as LDS pistons, then tell me why they only show 4 rings when an LDS piston takes 5 rings? That’s right, they don’t know what they are selling. He clearly did not understand any of the emails that I sent them.

Early in the email chain Chris at Eastern had a guy pull apart an LDS piston kit and then tell me how my rings are supposed to go on my piston. The problem is he was looking at a 3 ring “New Style LDS Piston” when I clearly told him I have 4 rings on my piston.

I also told them that there is only 4 rings on my original LDT piston and 5 rings on an original LDS piston. The new style “LDS Piston Kits” that are part number 57K1318 only have 3 rings total. So we are talking about 3 totally different pistons! The rings on the 3 groove LDS pistons are not compatible with any other ring on the original LDT or original LDS piston, period. That being said, the ring kit they have only fits the LDT piston, supposedly. When you get the rings be prepared to not have them in any military packaging and not have any part numbers on the package at all. They tell me they are surplus but may not be from all of the same supplier and that is why the one set was different.

They still insist that they are fine to use even though that they do not all match. Who in their right mind builds an engine with piston rings that do not match?

So in a nut shell I’ll paraphrase what is going on:

Eastern surplus: ”yes, we know that they did not all match, did not come labeled with any part numbers but they are all the same and that is what you ordered. We pulled a piston off the shelf that had 3 rings and told you that the first compression ring is the light colored ring, the second compression ring is the darker one, and the third one is the oil ring. We know the picture you sent us shows 10 light colored compression rings and only 2 dark compression rings but somehow the kit must be right because we say so. We also know 2 weeks after you bought our rings that you called trying to get piston rings for the 3 groove LDS pistons which we think are the same even though you told us they are not.

We would rather get your money and well parts that are not accurately described. If its not what you ordered we will use the excuse that it’s the surplus market and you should understand different manufacturers might make parts differently. So shut up, I don’t care to educate myself in the products I sell. Ignorance is bliss, this matter is now closed and thank you for your business. ”

Me: “I gave you all of the part numbers of each piston ring on the LDT piston, I explain to you the 3 different types of Multifuel Pistons, I explain to you that the rings I ordered I expected them to be the same and will not accept a set with 2 oddball rings that do not have the same finish or markings on them like the others. No mechanic would put an engine together with unknown rings that did not match. Either send me matching rings or send me a shipping label to refund all of my money because you sent me parts that are not complete and not usable.”

I would never give Eastern Surplus a good review now. Everybody makes mistakes, yes. It's life... but when somebody tried to deceive a customer by trying to tell them they are good when they are clearly not, that is just wrong. They never called me to inform me that what I ordered is not all the same and instead just sent them anyway hoping I wouldn't say anything. The tell me I can send them back and either get my money in store credit or receive a refund and have to pay a 30% restocking fee. Why should somebody be charged a restocking fee when they send back parts that the supplier knew were not correct? There are plenty of other vendors out there that are good businessmen and do what is fair. I'm not looking for anything other than fair here, not looking for something for nothing, only receive what I order. Simple. Steve, Chris and Dave at Eastern Surplus are not good people. I have heard stories about them and this confirms it. If they change their ways and make this transaction right, then I will retract this comment. Until then, take your business somewhere else because they are not good people and everybody else has cheaper prices, guaranteed. Eastern Surplus are known to be the most expensive and there is absolutely no benefit of doing business with them unless you like burning money and being treated like dirt.
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rustystud

Well-known member
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Location
Woodinville, Washington
Sorry to hear of the grief they are giving you. I doubt anything will happen as its obvious the vendors(not all of them) have been given free range to spam the he!! out of our board. Its a shame they can spam our forum with no re-guard to their business practices.
I'm glad to see this bothers others too ! I will try and find a cheaper priced part and post it when I see "country" post something like "we have that part !" . I thought all selling posts went in the "classifieds" section yet you see them posting all the time in regular posts. Really pisses me off ! especially when a newbie will see that post and assume it is a OK company never knowing they will overcharge him 4 times the normal amount !
 

Wildchild467

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
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Location
Milford / Michigan
I cant find in the manual which way the oil control ring goes on the piston. It seems castellated or had raised parts on the rings on one side... similar to how a castle nut would be. The other side of the rings are smooth. Does anybody have insight as to the orientation on the piston? SEE UPDATE BELOW.

UPDATE: I opened another pack of rings and one had an ink stamp on the oil ring that shows the smooth/flat part of this oil ring going towards the TOP of the piston. The smooth side of the oil ring is on the opposite side of the ring shown below.

20160216_212946.jpg20160216_212940.jpg
 
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cattlerepairman

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NORTH (Canada)
I'd be a lot calmer about this thread if I had not put the surplus rings into my rebuild as well. I am getting started to drop the engine in....we'll see. My LDS has the new style 3-ring pistons, so I have reasonable hope that I am ok.
 
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Wildchild467

Well-known member
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Location
Milford / Michigan
I'd be a lot calmer about this thread if I had not put the surplus rings into my rebuild as well. I am getting started to drop the engine in....we'll see. My LDS has the new style 3-ring pistons, so I have reasonable hope that I am ok.
I hope so as well. It is a lot of work to have it not go as expected. Please keep me/us/the thread updated on your results.
 

mark salanco

New member
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I'm going to be firing my engine up in the next couple days. I have noticed a brake fluid on the rear tire, so looking like a brake job before I break in the engine. Always something. Lol
 

Wildchild467

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
2,052
57
48
Location
Milford / Michigan
I'm going to be firing my engine up in the next couple days. I have noticed a brake fluid on the rear tire, so looking like a brake job before I break in the engine. Always something. Lol
ALWAYS! Eventually you replace everything and repairs seem to slow down for a bit. They did for me anyway. That is why I wanted to do head gaskets. I would have to do them eventually, might as well do them now while I'm down on the ground getting beat by this truck. The tables are turning soon though! Pistons are going in tonight.
 

mark salanco

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greenville sc
Yeah, their isn't much left on my truck that hasn't been replaced..lol
Did you find out what way your oil rings go?
I was going to guess that the bosses face down.
 

mark salanco

New member
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greenville sc
I fired my rebuilt engine today, it seems to run good and sounds great. Going to Install the radiator tomorrow and do a short test drive. It full of John Deere break-in oil.
 

mark salanco

New member
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Location
greenville sc
I installed the radiator and grill today, filled it full of coolant.
I ran it for a few minutes to check for leaks, and I found none. So I went in a test drive, close to home in case something happened. It ran great, much better than before I rebuilt it. I took it on a local toll road, this is my base line test run. I ended up turning my fuel up 4 flats, it ran much better, but not as good as when I first bought the truck. Going up a fairly steep grade, the EGT went to 1200.
I so wish I had put a Pyrometer and boost gauge on this truck when I first got it, it ran like a bear. Stronger than this current LDS engine. I am convinced that someone had turned up the fuel on this truck way back when.
When I first got this bobbed deuce, I dropped e it to upstate NY from South Carolina, I don't ever recall shifting down on any of the hills on that 850 mile trip.
With the data I collected today, this engine had to be running well over 1200 degree egt.
I ran this engine for about 6 monthes like it was. When I tore it down, no signs of melted pistons, no broken rings.
I was expecting this new rebuild to the LDS upgrade to be stronger than the original LDT.
I'm going to try the LDS-465-1A injectors next and see if it helps.
As far as blow by coming from the crankcase vent tube, it's almost none existent.
 
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