possible build questions

[HETvet]

I've got a large sum of money coming to me in the near future. So I plan to buy a CUCV pick up. Would like to swap in a P pump DT466. What trans and transfer case would be compatible? If I could, I would like to get about 300-350 hp out of it. Any idea as to how I could go about doing this?

 

[tim292stro]

How much toque do you want? Gears/boxes are rated in torque.

The DT466 has a separate flywheel housing - you can get it in SAE #3 (smallest) through SAE #1. Pretty much any torque converter, clutch, and transmission is adaptable to that engine. The transfercase issue can be solved by going "divorced" where you have a yoke output on the transmission, and a yoke input on the t-case (like a drive shaft without the shaft). NP205 my be the easiest to do and is pretty stout (and should be the model you get with an M1008 ) - which would be good if your transmission has overdrive (which you'll want if you want both freeway speeds and fuel economy).

What are you thinking of doing with this truck after you've finished?

 

[HETvet]

I would like to go 4 or 5 speed trans and 2 speed transfer case, if possible. I'm going to have to do more research as to what the torque out put would be. I do know the engine produces a good amount of torque.

The build would be in stages;
Stage 1 would be engine, trans, and T-case swap
Stage 2 would be getting the front end locked and. Disc brakes all the way around
Stage 3 would be lifting it and installing 37 inch baja claw radials and 24 bolt HMMWV wheels.

It's use would be for daily driving and light to moderate off roading.

 

[HETvet]

Torque rating estimate of 800-950 lb-ft. Going off a spec sheet; @ 275hp it makes 800 lb-ft @ 1900rpm. The engine weights in at 1400lbs fully dressed

 

[Recovry4x4]

You might need to use some of your cash to buy a fender stretcher or firewall dimpler. Fitting the DT under the CUCV hood could prove to be troublesome. 1400# for the DT might be a little taxing as well. Sounds interesting though.

 

[porkysplace]

DT 466 weighs close to 1500 pounds compared to around 600 pounds for a 6.2 GM . That a lot of weight on the front axle.

 

[tim292stro]

Realize that a diesel does not have a wide power band - it's usually 1000RPM-2300RPM, only about 1300RPM wide (a "gasser" can have a power band of 1000RPM-4500RPM, almost 3x the size). A 4-speed is probably out, you might get away with a 5-speed, but a 6-speed will give you better drivability.

I'd recommend taking a look at this drivetrain calculator to see what you can expect out of your truck. For daily driving fuel economy running the engine lower than 1800 RPM will improve your economy by full MPGs. You can virtually play with different transmission, transfer case, and final drive setups - as well as play with your tire size.

 

[tim292stro]

You might need to use some of your cash to buy a fender stretcher or firewall dimpler. Fitting the DT under the CUCV hood could prove to be troublesome. 1400# for the DT might be a little taxing as well. Sounds interesting though.

A fully dressed 6.2 comes in over 1000lbs - apples to apples you're probably looking at a 300-500lb difference, that said, don't expect to use 30 year old leaf springs to support this. A DT466 weighs a little more than a Cummins 6BT 5.9L.

Stuff like this has been done, but probably not mentioned or documented here on SS. You may have to expand your knowledge search outside the walls of this fine establishment.

 

[Recovry4x4]

A fully dressed 6.2 comes in over 1000lbs - apples to apples you're probably looking at a 300-500lb difference, that said, don't expect to use 30 year old leaf springs to support this. A DT466 weighs a little more than a Cummins 6BT 5.9L.

Stuff like this has been done, but probably not mentioned or documented here on SS. You may have to expand your knowledge search outside the walls of this fine establishment.

You would have to fill it with concrete to get it to 1000#. Care to share where you found that information? As far as expanding my knowledge outside of Steel Soldiers, you have no idea who I am or where I obtain my knowledge. I do know that your weight estimate is way off! Believe it or not, I've seen it done with the DT as well as the likes of the 6:71 GMC. I stand by my remarks.

 

[tim292stro]

Engine hoist and a calibrated scale.

This is an AC compressor, power steering pump, headers, Alternator, oil, etc...

The 500-600 lb numbers I've always seen is dry and unassembled, not wet - and certainly not dressed.

 

[Recovry4x4]

Wonder if they gain weight with time, like me? My contact at Moraine Assy was pretty emphatic that it weighed just over 750 wet and dressed. They sure moved a lot of them around. Guess I need a calibrated scale.

 

[tim292stro]

Yeah, the question is how dressed, cast headers can add 60 lbs... plumbing and filters (also wet) another 30 lbs. That pushes it over 800 from your friend's number - not really sure how dressed he saw them and with what options.

I feel you on the weight with age thing...

 

[HETvet]

Well, 800 lb-ft @ 1900rpm would allow for cruising under that. Basicly off idle. If the Ford guys can do this with their OBS trucks, why cant I. The leafs will be getting replaced.

 

[tim292stro]

I doubt that cruising is going to require or produce 800-lbft - you might get that if you are rock crawling in low range with a tire wedged between two immovable rocks, right before your drive shaft collapses, maybe closer with towing... Remember that there is a governor that fuels the injectors to try and match the speed requested by the throttle input. The governor responds to loads on the drive-train, so driving on flat land with no wind or a tail wind only needs to overcome the rolling resistance of the tires, mechanical losses in the drive-train, and aerodynamic deficiencies of the rolling brick (aka the 70's-80's GM square-body style). For city driving I'd be very surprised to find you were using more than 85HP to move a CUCV truck around empty (~230-ftlb of torque at 1900rpm).

What you're generally saying is that you want a daily driver that you can off-road occasionally, and I imagine that you want to be able to use the pickup bed for "stuff". 300HP at the wheels is what I'm targeting in my build with a Cummins (about 350HP at the flywheel) - it seems like a good all-around rating. For 34" tires I'm going with a 3.73 final drive and an overdrive transmission 0.78:1). When the transfer case is in high (1:1) and the transmission in 6th (6-speed), I'll be right around 65MPH at 1800RPM, and I'll be able to hit 75MPH on roads with that limit before running out of power band. Assuming all I did was change ties to the size you want (37"), it'd put 65 cruising at around 1700RPM (perfect!).

Another thread was recently asking what this type of build involves (Cummins, not International) and the answer is about $5-10K for simple stuff and about one to three months + depending on the time you can put into it.

Your recipie should consider maintenance potential as well as the initial modification work - you don't want to drop in an engine/transmission combination that will snap a pinion gear when you "goose it" for a daily driver. You may need to beef up the axles and shafts if you want all that torque available (Dana 70 or Dana 80 rear, Dana 60 for the front - M1028 would be a good starting point vs the M1008 ).

 

[HETvet]

As far as the engine goes, I am going that route cause I found one used for $800 running. For the trans, I have no clue. T case I was thinking a NP205 beefed up a bit. High range 1:1. The rear end I think could take it with some stronger shafts; keeping the 456 gearing. The front end I was thinking dana 70/80 with 456 gearing as well.

To get to the power level I'm after the pump just needs turning up. But I am sending the pump and injectors to industrial injection to be calibrated, tweaked, pop tested and all that jazz. This engine is not going to see any more than 2800 rpm. So I really think that it should get decent fuel mileage, it's not going to see more than 65 mph.

 

[tim292stro]

If you're going to have the injectors and pump reworked, why not also do the engine?

If you're keeping the 4.56:1 final drive, and 37" tires, you're going to have difficulty putting that truck on a freeway unless you get an over drive transmission - a 1:1 (direct) top gear will get you ~68MPH, but I think you'll find that 2800RPM is going to SCREAM (if you thought a CUCV with no cab insulation was loud with a 6.2, just wait for it... ). You'll also be out of the power-band, so any need to pass is going to leave you wanting. Redline for the DT466 is 2800RPM, so if you're pushing that constantly, you should definitely check the crank balance and piston/rods for balance/matching - lest the vengeful gods of diesel propulsion see fit to smite thine oil pan with a thunderous piston of terror and piercing rod of doom...

Getting an overdrive of 0.78:1 will take 65MPH down to 2100RPM, an overdrive of 0.73:1 will take 65MPH down to 1950RPM. These are better revs IMHO, I'm just thinking of redline at 2800RPM and the first downhill with a load that takes you past it...

The NP205 input torque rating is 1100-ftlbs, it should be fine with your engine selection, just check your bearings and seals.

Have you given thought to auto or manual?

 

[HETvet]

I would prefer a Manual, the wife wants an auto so she can drive it, and the internal debate begins. lol. The top speed and Red line is of no real concern for me. When this project is done, It will be driving through the DFW area during morning traffic and some local driving. The heaviest load its going to see is a bed full of wood for camping. Its by no means going to be a pulling truck. I though about pulling some deuce Rockwell axles under it, but just thought that would be over kill. Though I think a set of 3,73:1 gears would suit it well. And that's not out of the question. I would like a 6 speed trans though. As far as noise goes, I plan to dyno mat the interior of the cab, and spray the under side of the cab, fire wall, and bed with lizard skin. The 205 im debating on weather I want to get a 4:1 low range for it.

 

[southdave]

dude check out the dt360 they came with a P pump or dt408 dt466, is just huge.. I am big fan of dt360 & 408 good econ. wet sleave motor rebuild kit are inexspeniive ect..

 

[HETvet]

I have the motor on had. Injectors and pump went out this morning. That's why

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

When this project is done, It will be driving through the DFW area during morning traffic and some local driving.

I've driven there. That means you need at least 65 MPH or they are going to run right up your tailpipe!


Right before they stop for a freeway merge.....