Power Steering Possibility?

[Lieutenant Dan]

I think with the servo your still gonna have problems timing the systems to work together. I think the best as listed

#1 ross/saginaw box
#2 torque generator
#3 air assist
#4 full hydro system

 

[m16ty]

I don't think there would be any timing involved in a servo system. The one I listed in the link is also fully adjustable. You would need to size your cylinder correctly though.

 

[mudguppy]

a new box gets you a more modern full turns to lock system, not the 9-something turns lock-lock that you would still have with a servo conversion. i guess i don't know that its a bad thing, but you wouldn't be turning the wheel twice as much for no reason.

 

[rustystud]

a new box gets you a more modern full turns to lock system, not the 9-something turns lock-lock that you would still have with a servo conversion. i guess i don't know that its a bad thing, but you wouldn't be turning the wheel twice as much for no reason.

Of course if you had a hydraulic failure you would appreciate that stock steering gear

 

[rchalmers3]

Good point rustystud.

So, we are now considering:

The Ross/Saginaw gear with less turns lock to lock, making full use of the power assist, or
The stock steering gear with power assist applied to the steering linkage, offering redundancy at the expense of utilizing the fullest advantage of the assist.

I wonder if the "feel" of the two options would be equal? I expect the quick turning Ross/Saginaw gears would be a match to the power assist. How would the low ratio stock gear feel???

Rick

 

[Lieutenant Dan]

Just got home from a flyers game and while I was sitting in traffic for an hour in the way there, I went through looking at the Woodward steering website. You might be on to something with that steering servo.....

It it would be a simple install, and possibly very closely mimic full hydraulics but hoepfully with out the drawbacks of twitchy steering and no return to center. You could keep the stock box and just cut and add the servo in the steerig shaft. It looks quite adjustable with the torsion bars. The only concern I have is if it did fail..... Would that torsion bar be strong enough to not twist and snap when your trying to turn the deuce manually?

I dont mind the 9 turn lock to lock of the manual box, it would be reduced with a smaller wheel anyway, no? Also with keeping it the stock low ratio I think you might have more control over the power steering anyway. I'm going to call Woodward tomorrow and talk to them to see what they have to say about installing one of these on our trucks.

 

[rustystud]

I called the Tech line at "Woodward Precision Power Steering" today. I asked if there system could work in a M35A2 deuce. He gave me a whole lot of info, including some systems they are making for the military right now like the BAE Systems MRAP vehicle. The short answer is YES there steering servos are more then capable to work on our trucks ! The servo he recommended is part # VA955X-200 , price is $500.00 . You would also need a hydraulic pump, lines and reservoir, ram and couplers for the steering shaft that you would have to modify. The couplers are $20.00 ea. They are welded on to the shaft and have splines for the servo.

So for about $1500.00 you could have a power steering system that would work in almost all conditions, including a complete hydraulic system failure ! (You would just have stock steering )
This is the MRAP that uses their steering system. It is rated at over 70mph ! I think that is plenty stable for our trucks .

 

[mudguppy]

so for that price, why wouldn't I use Tom's box and have a modern steering system? FYI, that's also the same price as a full-hydro system. so the answer to one of the original questions regarding price - it's all within a couple hundred bux of each other.

I'd use Tom's.

 

[Lieutenant Dan]

Toms kit is $1000 more then that..... Not saying that's bad....

i think a servo system could be made for around $800 to $900

 

[welldigger]

I called the Tech line at "Woodward Precision Power Steering" today. I asked if there system could work in a M35A2 deuce. He gave me a whole lot of info, including some systems they are making for the military right now like the BAE Systems MRAP vehicle. The short answer is YES there steering servos are more then capable to work on our trucks ! The servo he recommended is part # VA955X-200 , price is $500.00 . You would also need a hydraulic pump, lines and reservoir, ram and couplers for the steering shaft that you would have to modify. The couplers are $20.00 ea. They are welded on to the shaft and have splines for the servo.

So for about $1500.00 you could have a power steering system that would work in almost all conditions, including a complete hydraulic system failure ! (You would just have stock steering )
View attachment 467436This is the MRAP that uses their steering system. It is rated at over 70mph ! I think that is plenty stable for our trucks .

I have always been a fan of ram assisted steering. It takes a lot of the stress off of the steering box and pitman arm. Its easier to break those parts than you might think.

 

[rustystud]

so for that price, why wouldn't I use Tom's box and have a modern steering system? FYI, that's also the same price as a full-hydro system. so the answer to one of the original questions regarding price - it's all within a couple hundred bux of each other.

I'd use Tom's.

You still must modify the frame, and radiator shroud, plus if you had a hydraulic failure you would end up with almost no steering unless your built like " I'll be back Arnold" . I have driven large trucks that had steering failure and let me tell you it is no picnic !!! And God forbid this failure happened will your towing your trailer on the freeway !!! Talk about pucker factor !!! With this system you still retain ALL stock components. Plus now the steering gear has almost no pressure on it so it will outlast your grandchildren !!!
As far as a "modern system" goes, you cannot get more modern ! This is now "state of the art" .

 

[m16ty]

The only concern I have is if it did fail..... Would that torsion bar be strong enough to not twist and snap when your trying to turn the deuce manually?

The way I understand it, the torsion bar only controls the valving. The shaft goes straight through so even if the torsion bar broke you would still have manual control.

I'm seriously considering this setup (Woodward servo). I may need to start a new thread but I'd like to talk about some mounting options. I haven't really looked into it that close but I'm trying to figure out the best way to mount the servo to the stock steering shaft. The weld in couplers will come in handy but what's the best way to support the shaft after you cut a section out of it?

 

[jesusgatos]

That's the tricky part. Think it's a solid idea and worth exploring, but the way the steering shaft is made makes it a little more complicated. You'll have to cut the housing and the shaft, but do you want to support both ends of the cut shaft/housing and create something more like an intermediate shaft, or do you want to rebuild the housing around the servo? I would probably lean toward rebuilding a section of the steering column housing so that it would support the servo and preserve the structural integrity of the original column housing. Doesn't necessarily need to be enclosed, but you'd probably want to seal the exposed shaft/housing joints somehow. Only other way I can think to do it would be to drive the servo off some type of chain or belt/pulley system, but can't think of any part of the steering column that's exposed, and if you have to cut into the housing anyway...

 

[Lieutenant Dan]

That's the easy part I would think cut a chunk out of the shaft and then figure out what the od of the shaft is, slide bearings with pillow blocks on before welding the couplers on and then some brackets to the frame.

 

[jesusgatos]

Well then you're all set. You can support the end of the steering column that's attached to the steering wheel with a second steering column mount (like the one that's used on the dash) at the firewall.

 

[Lieutenant Dan]

Yeah that would work too..... Man I can't wait to pick up my deuce so i can walk outside and really know exactly what you guys are talking.

 

[m16ty]

Eastern Surplus appears to be using some type of poly bushing to support the shaft inside the cut tube. This may work but I'm wondering if a bearing would be better suited for this. Any wear in this area is going to result in slack in steering.

 

[rustystud]

I cannot find the post right now but this has already been done. McMaster-Carr sells a lubed brass bushing that fits inside the steering column and fits the shaft. Part # 9368T211 . As far as the strength of the servo unit, when I called and asked about that , the tech said the shaft is made of 4140 steel . That's stronger then the stock shaft. For support on the steering shaft , use the stock support on the dash, just invert it on the firewall, then all you need to support is the shaft from the steering gear. I'm slowly buying the parts needed to do this now. Being Christmas time and all, funds are kinda low.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Digging this thread back up. M16ty now has an air assist installed in a truck. Maybe he could post up how good or crappy it is.

 

[m16ty]

Digging this thread back up. M16ty now has an air assist installed in a truck. Maybe he could post up how good or crappy it is.

Not too bad. It doesn't do much at a standstill but is a very big improvement while moving slowly. I'm running full truck pressure (no regulator) and the performance drops way off under 90psi. I have noticed a little hesitation in the assist picking up at the very beginning of steering wheel movement if you try and turn the wheel fast and steering is a little looser out on the road. The looseness isn't very bad (I've driven vehicles with way more slack), I assume this comes from the small amount the drag link sensor compresses or extends. The slow response I would say is just a product of air (compresses and moves slower than oil). All in all I'm very satisfied.

One down side I found out while working with this unit is it's up for debate if the sensor unit can rebuilt if you have problems ( there are reports of it being done but you have to remove two hardened pins somehow and the manufacturer strongly advises against trying to rebuild). To me this means if you have problems with the sensor, the whole system may be rendered useless and most of these units are getting some age on them.

The bottom line is I got this unit very cheap (read free). Would I pay what some people are asking for a air-assist over a hyd? No.