Probability of frozen engine that cranked then ground flywheel?

[cchamilt]

Hi, it has been over a year since I took my truck out. So I charged the battery up and checked to see if it would crank. It turned over maybe once and then started grinding starter/flywheel teeth. I am going to pull the starter and try to fix that, but could the engine be locked up if it did start to crank?

Thanks!

 

[NovacaineFix]

It's possible, but don't really have much to go on to really tell you.

I assume since you stated that you charged up the battery, hold on, you said battery not batteries???

If this was just a typo, and hope it was unless the truck has been converted to 12V, has it?
If it is still a 6.2 diesel and 24V, then you need 2 batteries, not 1. 1 may start it, but it won't last long at all.

If it is still 24V, it could have been a defective starter relay causing the starter to stay engaged, hence the "doghead" starter relay mod.

One way to check for a possible frozen or stuck engine is to remove the starter and try to rotate the flywheel by hand, preferably with a flywheel wrench and not using the crank hub bolt. You can use the hub bolt if that's all you got, but if it is frozen, the icing on the cake will be a broke off bolt stuck in the end of your crankshaft.

If the starter has ground down the flywheel, you'll have to remove it anyway, so all this is just steps in the removal process anyway.

We need more info/details and or pics.

 

[cucvrus]

Lets back up a bit. I feel you have a starter support bracket missing and or loose of broken starter bolt. I have seen this issue many times. I myself have bought a few CUCV's that were code H because they had the starters loose and missing parts. And everyone that makes an odd sound does not need to begin hacking up the harness. I have installed a new sealed relay in place of the GM stock relay. It works well. Antennaclimber had an excellent idea and I am field testing it with rave results. The relay plugs directly in and bolts/screws into place. Climb down under the passengers side and look up at the starter. see if it is tight and the front support bracket is in place. Do you need an picture? Good Luck and report back please.

 

[dependable]

I just had a nose cone casting crack right off a daily driver 1008 with original 27MT (non gear reduction) last week. There was no warning and the truck had started normally earlier in the day. The starting gear stayed engaged and grinding once key was turned until batteries were un hooked. Of course I suspected the under dash relay, but had already replaced with a HD one as in the DH modification.

This starter was well bolted up, with bracket, and may well have been original. Truck only has around 30K miles on it.

 

[Tinstar]

Hi, it has been over a year since I took my truck out. So I charged the battery up and checked to see if it would crank. It turned over maybe once and then started grinding starter/flywheel teeth. I am going to pull the starter and try to fix that, but could the engine be locked up if it did start to crank?

Thanks!

My first thought is why in the world would you let it sit that long between starts.

My first CUCV sat for years before I got it so that shouldn't be the only cause.
You might have had a coolant leak and its hydro locked?
Pull injectors and try again once you fix starter and/or flywheel.

Good luck

 

[cchamilt]

Thanks for the tips. I bought it as a 12V conversion. I'll pull the starter when I have a chance to grab a flywheel turner tomorrow. The starter was replaced with whatever autozone gave me for an 84 K30 a few years ago (it was dead in in a parking lot) and I have drove it maybe a dozen times since. Coolant is OK, and so is oil.

 

[cchamilt]

OK, the starter did pop off the rear bracket.
It appears to be missing the nut, etc.


I pulled the starter, it looks fairly generic DL8402S, no shims:

The teeth look fine:

As does the flywheel:

(I removed the torque converter cover to inspect it, but the transmission cooling lines limited its movement)

I tried wedging my Lisle flywheel turner against the cover and couldn't get the flywheel to rotate, how much effort should it take to move? I assume you just shove it in the teeth as I think its arm is only to lock the flywheel in place right?

 

[cucvrus]

Flex them cooler lines and get them out of the way. Get that cover out of your way. That engine has terrific compression. You will need a full turn area to work in..

 

[cchamilt]

OK, thanks. I believe I understand how to use the turner then.

 

[cucvrus]

Do NOT use the starter bolts over. Get new ones. They are Metric M10 X 1.50 thread. Do NOT use 3/8" standard bolts they will go in and seem to get tight but they are not tight. Make sure the support bracket is secured tightly to the body of the starter motor. And tighten the M8 bolt in the engine block securely.

 

[NovacaineFix]

Yeah these things have some wonderful compression, rated at 21.5:1 so it's going to be a little bit tougher than turning some small block Chevy or Ford engine.

But you got it, like CUCVRUS said, just give those cooler lines a slight push to the side, try not to use a prybar or anything with a hard flat edge to prevent from kinking those lines, they should give enough bending by hand to get that cover out of there.

Like you said, you sling that hook end over one of the flywheel teeth and use the prying end to engage the flywheel to turn. If it is truly frozen you'll probably pop an eardrum trying to get it to move or pass out.

Good Luck

 

[Drock]

I thought I'd jump in here with an idea, With an engine of any kind sitting for soo long, it could have filled with condensation or even leaked some raw fuel into some of the cylinders causing it to hydro lock. I would pull all the glow plugs and try turning it over.

 

[NovacaineFix]

Not a bad idea the only thing you have to watch out for is if any of the glow plug ends are mushroomed out there may be another project in the making

 

[Drock]

Not a bad idea the only thing you have to watch out for is if any of the glow plug ends are mushroomed out there may be another project in the making

Agreed, but would still need to be done anyway. And even if they were swollen you could still loosen them up enough to relieve the pressure and/or any liquid.

 

[NovacaineFix]

Agreed, but would still need to be done anyway. And even if they were swollen you could still loosen them up enough to relieve the pressure and/or any liquid.

True that

 

[cchamilt]

Hey, finally got a chance to look at it again (sorry, rain + too many projects). The cooler lines are in rough shape to begin with and not ran well. I did get them loose, but a kink appears cracked on inspection, so I have another project... The flywheel moves smooth to me, so I think all I need is new bolts for the starter (and some new lines for the transmission). There is already a patch on the other line, I may widen the kink out and do the same here temporarily.

I did find a chromed ~1/4" nut in the bottom of the torque converter cover. So I need to make sure that is just some odd lost junk as well.

 

[cucvrus]

I think it is just odd junk. No 1/4" nut in that area. And it is chrome from vibrating. You can do a double flare and replace a section of the line on the transmission. Report back.