Problem with MEP004

[viking1]

View attachment 722538 View attachment 722543 View attachment 722544

This is how your IP should look. Notice how the linkage plate on the side of the IP is wired to the front? That allows the linkage that is attached to the throttle cable, to control the IP. Thank GDG111 for the pictures.

Thank you Sir. BTW to me its wired to "the back" (haha); ie I always think of the pintle hitch as the front of the genset. I spoke to the guys who rebuilt the pump (Southwest Diesel in Phx), and they told me to pull it and bring it in as obviously the clip that holds the emergency stop arm into the pump is broken. Its hard to see in your pics, but my throttle lever/cable is on the side of the pump nearest the engine (see below).

 

[viking1]

OK, on round III with the pump rebuild. The second time they fixed the clip inside that came apart and let the throttle/emergency stop freewheel, but they adjusted it so the throttle wasn't variable (ie immediately went to 1800 RPM upon starting). Evidently that's the civilian spec, and I had to explain the MEP004 had an adjustable throttle cable. Hope its fixed now; pump going back on today. Then I just have to figure out the starter issue. Did find a few rat chewed wires in the large bundles above the engine (I'll start there)....

 

[Guyfang]

Did the folks who fixed your IP bother to read the -34 manual? If they had, the RPM setting would have been right the first time.

Please tell us what your starter problem is again. And explain what the set will and will NOT do.

 

[viking1]

Did the folks who fixed your IP bother to read the -34 manual? If they had, the RPM setting would have been right the first time.

Please tell us what your starter problem is again. And explain what the set will and will NOT do.

Its a civi shop, so I guess they were using civi specs (or at least they said it was set to spec).

So I changed the pump shaft seals, installed the pump, and it starts, runs, & charges great!! It still has the issue of the starter staying engaged (if it were hardwired) I will have to correct, but I have just been manually connecting the hot wire to the starter solenoid to get it running. It did a really strange thing the other day when I was pulling the pump for the THIRD time. All of a sudden the fuel pumps turned themselves on, a wisp of smoke came out of the control box above the engine (where all the white wires go), so I quickly disconnected the battery. After sitting a couple of days it hasn't done it again, but I'm wondering if there might be a mouse inside the box itself messing with the wires? Anyone have a picture of what the inside of that box looks like? I'm not looking forward to pulling the cover off (looks like a PITA)..... .

 

[Guyfang]

Look into the TM and find out what box your talking about. Or at least take a picture of it so we can tell you. There is a part number on each box, you can look it up in the parts index in the back of the parts manual.

 

[viking1]

Look into the TM and find out what box your talking about. Or at least take a picture of it so we can tell you. There is a part number on each box, you can look it up in the parts index in the back of the parts manual.

yes Sir, its this one below. I saw the small wisp of smoke coming out of the bundle where the arrow is.

 

[Guyfang]

Not good. That is the Special Relay Box, (S/P Relay Box). There are many goodies in there. See if you can find the wire, or wires that got hot. Will probably be a ground. But we need to know where to look for the problem. If the starter still engages, you need to see if the starter relay is welded shut, or something is tell it to close.

Next to the canon plug you saw smoke from, should be a number, like J1, or J4, or something. What is the number?

 

[viking1]

Not good. That is the Special Relay Box, (S/P Relay Box). There are many goodies in there. See if you can find the wire, or wires that got hot. Will probably be a ground. But we need to know where to look for the problem. If the starter still engages, you need to see if the starter relay is welded shut, or something is tell it to close.

Next to the canon plug you saw smoke from, should be a number, like J1, or J4, or something. What is the number?

Still haven't chased the starter problem, but will do so today. Strangely I have 200+ volts on the ac output meter, but no output at the generator lugs. main circuit breaker lights up, now chasing that as the main priority. Then I'll tackle the starter issue...

 

[Guyfang]

In what position is your S8 switch? 200 volts can be right, when its in the right position.

The only way your DS6 can light up, is if CB2 is energized. If CB2 is energized, and you have no volts at the load terminals, your CB2 is defective.

 

[viking1]

In what position is your S8 switch? 200 volts can be right, when its in the right position.

The only way your DS6 can light up, is if CB2 is energized. If CB2 is energized, and you have no volts at the load terminals, your CB2 is defective.

Sorry Sir, but I'm dumb and you lost me (haha). What are the S8 switch, the DS6, and the CB2? Can I find those abbreviations in the manuals?

Apologize for being so clueless.....

 

[Guyfang]

On the doors to the gen set, (and in the TM's) are wire diagrams and schematics. All the components are listed there. DS6, (power out circuit breaker ON light) for instance is the light that turns on when the CB2, (AC output circuit breaker) closes and sends voltage to the load terminals. S8 is the VO/AM switch. The S8 allows you to read the different legs of the output power, and to Amp meter to read amperage from the different legs.

 

[viking1]

On the doors to the gen set, (and in the TM's) are wire diagrams and schematics. All the components are listed there. DS6, (power out circuit breaker ON light) for instance is the light that turns on when the CB2, (AC output circuit breaker) closes and sends voltage to the load terminals. S8 is the VO/AM switch. The S8 allows you to read the different legs of the output power, and to Amp meter to read amperage from the different legs.

Unfortunately, my schematic is almost illegible. I guess I should put a meter on the CB2 terminals and see if there is 200+ volts there?

 

[Guyfang]

Then get into the -12 and -34 books and print out what you need. Another hint is that most components on the set, (electrical components) will have the name of the component or an ID form, like S8, or A5 printed next to them on the bulkheads and sides.

I would remove the terminal shields on the CB2, then start the set up. Measure first the input side of CB2, to see what you are getting from the Main generator. Then close the CB2, and see if you have the same voltage on the output side. If you have no output, and the DS6 is lit, then the CB2 has a problem. I find it hard to believe, but that's possible. Normally you are going to have output, if the light is lit. The contacts that turn on the light are dependent on the CB2 closing. If it don't close, the light can not come on. OR, you have no light, and no output. OR, you are going to have a light, and maybe one or two phases will not come through the BC2, because the contacts inside are burnt away. From phase to N, (Neutral) you should have 120 volts, (approx). From Phase to phase, you should have 208, (approx). If your S8 is set to measure from phase to phase, then 200 is a bit low, but still in the ballpark. You can raise it with the volt adjust rheostat. So if you haven read up yet on how to adjust the S8, might also be a good time to do that.

 

[viking1]

OK, I first fired it up with the battle short switch on and the main switch held up to "start", then hit the main AC circuit breaker. I then tested the output at the 110 outlets, I have juice there now. Tomm I will check the lugs again; thinking there is power there now. One thing that concerns me is the oil pressure (although the gauge may be suspect). Runs at 25-28 PSI.....

Then get into the -12 and -34 books and print out what you need. Another hint is that most components on the set, (electrical components) will have the name of the component or an ID form, like S8, or A5 printed next to them on the bulkheads and sides.

I would remove the terminal shields on the CB2, then start the set up. Measure first the input side of CB2, to see what you are getting from the Main generator. Then close the CB2, and see if you have the same voltage on the output side. If you have no output, and the DS6 is lit, then the CB2 has a problem. I find it hard to believe, but that's possible. Normally you are going to have output, if the light is lit. The contacts that turn on the light are dependent on the CB2 closing. If it don't close, the light can not come on. OR, you have no light, and no output. OR, you are going to have a light, and maybe one or two phases will not come through the BC2, because the contacts inside are burnt away. From phase to N, (Neutral) you should have 120 volts, (approx). From Phase to phase, you should have 208, (approx). If your S8 is set to measure from phase to phase, then 200 is a bit low, but still in the ballpark. You can raise it with the volt adjust rheostat. So if you haven read up yet on how to adjust the S8, might also be a good time to do that.

 

[viking1]

Then get into the -12 and -34 books and print out what you need. Another hint is that most components on the set, (electrical components) will have the name of the component or an ID form, like S8, or A5 printed next to them on the bulkheads and sides.

I would remove the terminal shields on the CB2, then start the set up. Measure first the input side of CB2, to see what you are getting from the Main generator. Then close the CB2, and see if you have the same voltage on the output side. If you have no output, and the DS6 is lit, then the CB2 has a problem. I find it hard to believe, but that's possible. Normally you are going to have output, if the light is lit. The contacts that turn on the light are dependent on the CB2 closing. If it don't close, the light can not come on. OR, you have no light, and no output. OR, you are going to have a light, and maybe one or two phases will not come through the BC2, because the contacts inside are burnt away. From phase to N, (Neutral) you should have 120 volts, (approx). From Phase to phase, you should have 208, (approx). If your S8 is set to measure from phase to phase, then 200 is a bit low, but still in the ballpark. You can raise it with the volt adjust rheostat. So if you haven read up yet on how to adjust the S8, might also be a good time to do that.

OK two questions Sir;

I redid the ip and injectors because the crankcase was filling up w diesel. Is there any other way diesel can get in there? I didn't have the correct fuel strainers, so I just ran a direct line/filter to the ip. Does it need an inline petcock (ie can diesel gravity feed from the day tank thru the pump into the crankcase)? Pulled the dipstick when it was running, and was getting a good flow out of the tube. I will change the oil again (cant remember if I did that after the ip rebuild; might have been contaminated from before).

 

[Guyfang]

99.9% of the time, when you have oil and fuel mixed in the crankcase, its the double flange on the drive shaft for the IP. If you look at figure 72, item 14, that's the problem. And if you have never seen the seals on the shaft, the picture is very misleading. It doesn't show the seals on the shaft, just that the shaft goes through the seal. Not the same thing.

My question to you, is did you change the seals? Every time someone pulls an IP, the danger of folding over the seals is great, when replacing the IP. I always, always, replaced those seals every time I had the pump off. Cheap insurance. The new seals are stiff, because they haven't been in a diesel bath for long time periods. They tend to get a bit soft, and then the right side seal will "roll" over, letting fuel run into the crankcase.

When I change the seals, I coat them with a bit of grease, and oh so carefully insert the IP onto the shaft, then eyeball the seal as it goes in. Sometimes I even had to use a tiny screwdriver to "help" the seal go in right.

The .01% that I haven't talked about is injectors. You had them "redone". I have never seen the injectors cause that kind of problem. Not once in the entire time I worked on power generation.

I think in the beginning, had you just replaced the seals, you could have used the money spent on the IP and injectors to buy a lot of beer.

These is the ONLY two ways to get fuel in the oil.

Change oil and use a cheap filter and oil. Then do it again, if the oil is good. If the oil is not good, get some seals.

 

[viking1]

99.9% of the time, when you have oil and fuel mixed in the crankcase, its the double flange on the drive shaft for the IP. If you look at figure 72, item 14, that's the problem. And if you have never seen the seals on the shaft, the picture is very misleading. It doesn't show the seals on the shaft, just that the shaft goes through the seal. Not the same thing.

My question to you, is did you change the seals? Every time someone pulls an IP, the danger of folding over the seals is great, when replacing the IP. I always, always, replaced those seals every time I had the pump off. Cheap insurance. The new seals are stiff, because they haven't been in a diesel bath for long time periods. They tend to get a bit soft, and then the right side seal will "roll" over, letting fuel run into the crankcase.

When I change the seals, I coat them with a bit of grease, and oh so carefully insert the IP onto the shaft, then eyeball the seal as it goes in. Sometimes I even had to use a tiny screwdriver to "help" the seal go in right.

The .01% that I haven't talked about is injectors. You had them "redone". I have never seen the injectors cause that kind of problem. Not once in the entire time I worked on power generation.

I think in the beginning, had you just replaced the seals, you could have used the money spent on the IP and injectors to buy a lot of beer.

These is the ONLY two ways to get fuel in the oil.

Change oil and use a cheap filter and oil. Then do it again, if the oil is good. If the oil is not good, get some seals.

Yes Sir, just put on two brand new seals. Its possible I screwed up the ip install, as it was a VERY tight fit. I guess I'll start by changing the oil as suggested and see what happens.

 

[Guyfang]

Roger, good place to start. Run the set 10-15 min, then drop the oil out. My first IP job had to be redone 3-4 times before I had it right. would have gone better if I had read the book.

 

[viking1]

Roger, good place to start. Run the set 10-15 min, then drop the oil out. My first IP job had to be redone 3-4 times before I had it right. would have gone better if I had read the book.

OK, I think I might be OK. Ran it 30 minutes with new oil, and stayed pretty clean. I'll run it some more tomm.

Here's a weird question: I just ran into a pair of MEP004's nearby, one with 1000 hours and one w 6000 hours. Both are missing pumps, but look to be in really nice condition otherwise (great tires, trailers in nice shape). $1800 for the pair, I have a friend who would like to make one working genny for standby house power (iesingle phase conversion like mine). What's your opinion the MEP004 in general. and do you foresee a day when you cant keep them going?

 

[Guyfang]

I like the 15 and 30 KW's. They are a good, dependable gen set. The white engine is a workhorse. I worked this gen set a long time, and found the engine to simply great. Problems like your fuel in the oil, are very rare. About the only complaint I had was some of the white engines had been "rebuilt" so often, without the crank being replaced, that on some engines, you needed to put smaller front and rear main seals into them. If you replace the seals and the new, standard seals start to seep/leak, that what needs to be done. The engines were being reworked in Utah, and CECOM got the boys there back on line. That's a long time ago. So probably no problem now.

On the electric side, once again, good and dependable. What I would do, if I were to want to have one for my house back up, would be to procure some of the electric boxes, the SP relay box, the A5 card and so on to keep on a shelf for a rainy day. The nice thing about it is that the 15&30 kW use the same parts, mostly, so there is a greater parts pool to dip from. I like the 004 and 005 simply for the fact that that it's way simpler then the new mep-804 or 805.

The short answer to your question is yes I would use a 004, and no, I don't think parts are a problem, if you got smart an found some spares. Most electrical problems on this set are DC, and mostly in the SP relay box.