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pros and cons to owning an LMTV vs a M35a3

Randy Huggins

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As it turns out, I find myself in a position to purchase my first (non trailer) military vehicle. Tomorrow I will set out on a 500+ mile round trip to view a couple of vehicles on my list. I'm looking at a 1993 M35a3 and a 1998 LMTV. I had been leaning towards the LMTV (4X4) for its drivability (turn radius) but I just love the look of the m35a3. The m35 also appears to be in better shape but needs a top and a cover/bows for the bed. it is also about $3k cheaper. The LMTV has everything (including AC) but has rust in floors. I'm interested in hearing the thoughts of the group. Thanks
 

fuzzytoaster

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This is the off the top of my head comparison between the two trucks and I tried to be objectively factual rather than speak to my taste. Having an M109A4 (M35A3 with M109 box) and an M1078 side by side it was easy to make comparisons.


M35A3
Pros
Cons
Non Air brakes (may help in some states), split brake systemAir-over-hydro brakes - same potential for issues as A2 series
Shares many parts with A2 series (which are more common now)Some parts are only for A3 trucks and are limited (transmission parts!!)
Full mechanical engine/transmission/transfer caseLimited to 170 hp, major $$ to get more and transmissions is limited on torque rating
Rare truck - 5000-ish made..rare truck means rare parts.
Air-assisted steering6 tires vs 4 on LMTV
A simpler truck to maintain vs FMTVIf tires are 14.5's then they will need to be replaced immediately.
365/85r20 replacements are costly.


M1078
Pros
Cons
Full power steeringMore electrical components (relays, sensors, etc)
Full air brakes (may be con depending on state of residence)Hydraulics more complicated (A3's don't have any unless you have a winch)
Engine, transmission, etc are commonly serviceable by mechanics
Bigger cab interior with storage space
225hp stock (55 more hp) and more gears for better performance


Again, this was a very quick short list and you can add or remove a lot of info. With the cost of a new M35A2 top ($400 ish) and cargo cover setup ($800 before shipping) you're well on your way to even cost between vehicles. From what you've said I'd take a serious look at the M1078 with the A/C as that is a must have for any long drives and I believe it's a more capable vehicle. You haven't given prices for either truck so both may be over priced or super cheap..then why not get both? :p
 

cattlerepairman

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Winch on either truck?
How bad is the rust on the LMTV (surface rust, significant rust on structural elements - is it a rust belt truck)?
What do you plan to do with the truck? Work horse or hobby vehicle? Asking because the A3 is the "less electronic" truck. The LMTV is more modern and with that come electronics that some people embrace, others do not.

Top/bed cover/bows should not be a deal breaker; you can research options for the cab top (such as a fiberglass hard top, a soft top, an insulated soft top, a spendy OEM steel hard top). Bed covers/bows you might be able to buy used; the covers are definitely available as brand new manufacture as well.

I am an A2 guy, so I leave the details of the truck comparison to others.
 

Randy Huggins

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Thanks for the info. The LMTV is actually a m1081 with fold down cab and the AC was added but is currently not cold ??? His asking price is over $13k but he will come down as it has been sitting a while. I figured I'd cap my offer at $10k but will still need to transport it. The M35a3 is listed a $7500 but I'd hope to get it for $7. It is also about 100 miles from home so I thought I'd drive it home. Both are reported to be in runnig/driving condition and have clear/private titles.. The LMTV looks a little rougher and has rust in floor under seats and in center of cab. I appreciate any suggestions. Thanks
 

Randy Huggins

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Thanks, neither have a winch. I will be viewing them tomorrow but from the photos and discussions the LMTV rust is in the cab area and some of the lugs. It also has a hydraulic leak at the controls for the cab lift/spare tire lift.
 

fuzzytoaster

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I believe I know the truck you're talking about and as a M1081 LVAD they are much more prone to rust. I'd do some serious poking around on it to gauge the rust before proceeding. Both seem to be priced right sight unseen.
 

smoke

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I would like to mention the a3 doesn't have overdrive so speed is limited. Unless you scream that cat. Plan on adding 395s if you want a little more speed at less rpms. I do like the look of the a3 better than lmtv but I'm a a2 guy. You could always put a/c in a3 too but pricey. When in doubt go with your gut and your mechanical abilities. Both will have their own gremlins that will need attention sooner or later. Just be prepared. Remember the saying "Big truck big money and or time.
 

tobyS

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I like the A3, but they are extreemly prone to tranny issues. The Allison 1545 is an oddball, made from the very popular 545 but with a locking torque converter.

Here is the problem. With the 4th as straight through, the locking torque converter puts additional torque on the clutch pack, but the seals in the piston that hold pressure on the frictions and steels was inferior to begin with as an OEM tranny and most fail early in their life. As they fail to hold, people mash the fuel and MELT the aluminum clutch piston for the fourth/reverse....and it's toast. So that is the bad....and potentially really expensive....but it doesn't have to be.

My project truck is an A3 which had/has that tranny problem. I bought it for $4,500...named it money pit, but it's more of a time thing...loooooong term. I'm making mine a 4x4 and they are extremely popular as a "bobber". Google M35A3 bobber. For just around town and the farm, I don't need the extra axle...it doesn't have posi or limited slip and if one is sliding in mud, the one behind it is too. But air locks and detroits can change that too. Buying for one rear axle is a lot less than 2....same with tires....which you will need.

On the plus side for the SS, it is already a 4x4.

Back to tranny on the A3, since I think you will encounter the problem. The person that sold me my truck bought a used one, went from Detroit to Iowa and back and had a "guarantee"....that was worthless. He installed it and it had the same problem. They had disguised it with new oil and cleaning, but what a disappointment. So I got a very low mile Allison completely apart in a box, with what felt like sandblast medium (friction clutch) stuck to burned oil and melted aluminum drops and a transmission in the truck that is internally the same. I did run it in 1-3 and was really impressed with the Cat.

I have a friend that was Allison and GM certified. He cleaned and checked the parts, which amaxzingly were all there and the gears looked like new. I bought the new master overhaul for the 545 and except for a seal, had all that was needed. The 545 piston and steels and frictions are the same...readily available. More important is that the seals are improved.

After completing a second rebuild for another SS member with the OEM clutch, we found that the direct clutch pack for an 4L80E was interchangable and that there are high performance clutches and frictions that can improve that part of the tranny at very little additional cost. It is thinner, more advanced, and has more surface area from having 2 more plates. I wish I had known about this mod before I put in OEM clutches.

Here is a picture of my tranny rebuilt with a PTO direct mount hydraulic pump, soon to go in.

With so much money in a machine up front it is hard to make significant alterations. You will find A3 at around half of the SS cost, making some investment in addressing the weak link not so bad. There are more items to the A3 like assisted steering and dual circuit brakes (over the A2).
 

Randy Huggins

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South Carolina
Thanks for the info. Today I purchased the M35a3 and drove it 100+ miles home. I really like it, even at around 45mph. I was told NOT to max it out as this was going to be the longest run it had seen in many years. I was able to maintain around 2400rpms and it did fine. Any tips for maintenance (or operation) will be appreciated. Thanks again.
 

Randy Huggins

New member
5
6
3
Location
South Carolina
I would like to mention the a3 doesn't have overdrive so speed is limited. Unless you scream that cat. Plan on adding 395s if you want a little more speed at less rpms. I do like the look of the a3 better than lmtv but I'm a a2 guy. You could always put a/c in a3 too but pricey. When in doubt go with your gut and your mechanical abilities. Both will have their own gremlins that will need attention sooner or later. Just be prepared. Remember the saying "Big truck big money and or time.
Thanks, I bought the M35a3 after all. It is virtually rust free and clean all around. I think I have a good platform to work with here. I'd like to find a source for 395s but might look at "bobbing" it first. thanks for the info.
 

smoke

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oxford,pa
Great to hear you got the a3. If you need 395s, message Simp5782, he got a ton of them and would probably deliver them too. Since you got the a3, I saw derrickl112 has a core at1545 for sell in classifieds too. That way you have one to rebuild and put on the shelve. Good luck with it.
 

Floridianson

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Interlachen Fl.
Thanks, I bought the M35a3 after all. It is virtually rust free and clean all around. I think I have a good platform to work with here. I'd like to find a source for 395s but might look at "bobbing" it first. thanks for the info.
Bobbing with out putting lockers in front and rear is ok if the truck will be used to get groceries. I learned my lesson on that one and yes it still would be a bad machine off road but a tandem will get you through more with the correct tires for the terrain.
 

m715mike

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Thanks for the info. Today I purchased the M35a3 and drove it 100+ miles home. I really like it, even at around 45mph. I was told NOT to max it out as this was going to be the longest run it had seen in many years. I was able to maintain around 2400rpms and it did fine. Any tips for maintenance (or operation) will be appreciated. Thanks again.
Congrats on your acquisition and on the successful recovery! That is exciting news!

My advice is read! Read the TMs and search/read the posts on SS. There is a lot of good information out there. If you are like me, you will also discover things that you didn’t even know to ask about. Then, find other SS members in your area and meet-up. And lastly, enjoy your truck!
 

HDN

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Finger Lakes Region, NY
Congratulations with your M35A3 purchase! Like you, I've compared the M35A3 with the FMTVs since they were manufactured at the same time. I like to think of them as "MTV Lite" since they can probably hold more than a LMTV with the third axle, but a little less than the MTV, and come with creature comforts from the factory such as a heater, automatic transmission, and assisted steering. The relatively modern engine and transmission help too. Plus the CTIS is there if needed.

From what I've read on here, the M35A3 combat rims are limited to a load of 4000 lb each. You could theoretically carry a maximum of 4 tons in the back, but I'm not sure what someone would put in the bed that would even weigh that much. I'm not sure I'd push the loading that hard either. That's the other reason why the A3 is the "MTV Lite" to me.

In New York State, anyway, you need a CDL for trucks with air brakes, historical or not. The A3 gets around this with air-assisted hydraulic brakes. Plus the truck is about 2 tons lighter empty than the LMTV, so it should also get better fuel efficiency (I get at least 8 MPG with mine).

I'll probably get an MTV someday with a loading crane. My wife loves the cabovers!
 
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