Providing Magna Sine Inverter with MEP power

[cbisson]

I'm considering installing a Magnum Energy Magna-Sine inverter in my house to energize a critical loads panel. When utility power is out here I don't run the generator overnight. During the day, for most of the time, the 802 is very lightly loaded so the charger draw will load down the gen a bit. I will be able to program how much energy the charger draws. I will have lights, furnace, fridge, freezer, TV, water pump, etc at night when I shut down. Seems like a more efficient use of the energy produced by the 802a.

I also am planning to get the 120/240 split phase input/output model so the charger will draw equally from both legs on input and the inverter can power my 240v well pump.

My question is if any of you have experience good or bad with Magnum Energy inverters and also if any of you have had experience driving an inverter / charger with a MEP 802a. It is my belief that the power from these is very clean. I know that the Volts and Hz are very stable but I don't have a scope so I can't tell if my particular 802 is delivering a nice clean wave.

Thanks for any thoughts or experience you may have,

-Craig

 

[DieselAddict]

I have Schneider equipment. My system is very similar to what you are proposing. It works great for running overnight. I can report that the MEP831, MEP802, and MEP803 are all inverter friendly. You shouldn't have any issues with power quality from your generator. The one caveat is the MEP831 does not like surge loads and will sometimes cause the inverter to drop the generator input if something like an air compressor starts up.

I am able to program the inverter with the max output of the generator and I can also program the max battery charging rate. The inverter goes a great job managing the available power sources. I have 4kw of solar panels that provides input. Most of the time I don't even have to run the generator when the power is out to be honest. The only time I have to run it is when the power is out and we don't get sun for a couple of days or if its so cold I have to run the large heatpump.

I don't have any experience with Mangum Energy products but from what I've read its decent stuff. I expect it will work well with the MEP generators.

Sorry for a long response that doesn't directly answer your question. I hope my experience does give you some confidence that your plan has a good probability of success.

 

[kloppk]

Just curious, which model are you considering?
I have a MS4448PAE but have only used it in inverting mode. Haven't hooked any AC input up to it yet.

 

[cbisson]

Just curious, which model are you considering?
I have a MS4448PAE but have only used it in inverting mode. Haven't hooked any AC input up to it yet.

Hello Kurt,

I'm considering the MS4024PAE. The little brother to yours. Probably a 200 or 400 Ah 24V battery bank to start.

Can't tell you how glad I am to have you weigh in as this stuff is smack dab in the middle of your wheelhouse. Glad to see you chose Magnum Energy. Are you satisfied with it to the point you've worked with it and used it so far?

You chose to go 48V....should I? Is it better to series connect 4x12v for 100 Ah at 48v or 4x12v in 2 parallel pairs in series for 200 Ah at 24v? I know the amount of energy is the same but I've heard that its always better to series connect batteries vs parallel. Don't know if that's true though.

Thanks,

-Craig

 

[cbisson]

I have Schneider equipment. My system is very similar to what you are proposing. It works great for running overnight. I can report that the MEP831, MEP802, and MEP803 are all inverter friendly. You shouldn't have any issues with power quality from your generator. The one caveat is the MEP831 does not like surge loads and will sometimes cause the inverter to drop the generator input if something like an air compressor starts up.

I am able to program the inverter with the max output of the generator and I can also program the max battery charging rate. The inverter goes a great job managing the available power sources. I have 4kw of solar panels that provides input. Most of the time I don't even have to run the generator when the power is out to be honest. The only time I have to run it is when the power is out and we don't get sun for a couple of days or if its so cold I have to run the large heatpump.

I don't have any experience with Mangum Energy products but from what I've read its decent stuff. I expect it will work well with the MEP generators.

Sorry for a long response that doesn't directly answer your question. I hope my experience does give you some confidence that your plan has a good probability of success.

Thank you DA. Your response is quite helpful. What is the V / Ah / chemistry of your battery bank?

As for solar, maybe down the road a bit. Right now my primary objectives are to load down the gen a bit during the day (efficiency) and maintain critical circuits at night (or during the day) when I shut down. Side benefit is the automatic failover to inverter when the utility goes down. Wife will be loving that. Where I live the stuff that knocks out utility power will also be piled on top of the solar panels!!!

 

[kloppk]

I've got a 300 AH 48V LIFEPO4 battery bank (four 12V 300 AH in series) and small array of ~1.7K feeding it.
I used the Magnum as an inverter for a few months this summer in a temporary hookup to check it out and it worked great. No really heavy loads on it at that time.
Plan is to re-do the cables from the bank, get the Magnum mounted and wired in with heavier DC cables so I could pull the full load if needed.
Plus make a pigtail so I can use one of my MEP's to charge the bank if ever needed.
I've always had 48 volt battery banks. Went thru 2 sets of flooded batteries before smartening up, digging deeper in the pockets and going to the LIFEPO4's. So nice to no longer have to water and equalize the batteries each month! Plus with their cycle life the batteries will outlive me.

 

[DieselAddict]

Thank you DA. Your response is quite helpful. What is the V / Ah / chemistry of your battery bank?

As for solar, maybe down the road a bit. Right now my primary objectives are to load down the gen a bit during the day (efficiency) and maintain critical circuits at night (or during the day) when I shut down. Side benefit is the automatic failover to inverter when the utility goes down. Wife will be loving that. Where I live the stuff that knocks out utility power will also be piled on top of the solar panels!!!

+1 on going 48v. Everything works better with higher battery bank voltages.

The batteries I'm using are from 3 Chevy Volt cars. Chemistry is NMC (Nickel-Manganese-Cobalt). They have been modified to give 48v nominal pack. Its a 14s setup and I charge to about 4v per cell which is about 56v. The total capacity is about 40 kw/hr. I'm using Batrium for the BMS. The setup operates in hybrid mode. When the battery is over 50% charged, the inverter is programmed to minimize import from the utility. When its below 50% charged it uses minimum power from the battery and passes through the utility power to the loads. To maximize cycle life on the battery bank I keep the SOC between 80% and 20%. The inverter is always ready to kick in as a UPS. I choose to keep at least a days worth of power in the battery just in case we loose utility since when the power here does go out its never in a hurry to come back on.

Last year I was able to shave 3.2 mw/hr off my power consumption using the solar panels. The system doesn't export any power. Its all self consumption. Total since install has saved me just over 10 mw/hr of power from the utility.

 

[kloppk]

The other plus of 48 V is the gauge of the DC cables can be smaller since the current at 48 V will be half of that at 24 V.

 

[cbisson]

I've got a 300 AH 48V LIFEPO4 battery bank (four 12V 300 AH in series) and small array of ~1.7K feeding it.
I used the Magnum as an inverter for a few months this summer in a temporary hookup to check it out and it worked great. No really heavy loads on it at that time.
Plan is to re-do the cables from the bank, get the Magnum mounted and wired in with heavier DC cables so I could pull the full load if needed.
Plus make a pigtail so I can use one of my MEP's to charge the bank if ever needed.
I've always had 48 volt battery banks. Went thru 2 sets of flooded batteries before smartening up, digging deeper in the pockets and going to the LIFEPO4's. So nice to no longer have to water and equalize the batteries each month! Plus with their cycle life the batteries will outlive me.

Damn. 300 AH at 48v? You've got some runtime there!! I've definitely settled on LIFEPO4's, not sure of the brand yet though. What are you using? Any thoughts on Battle Born?

 

[kloppk]

Damn. 300 AH at 48v? You've got some runtime there!! I've definitely settled on LIFEPO4's, not sure of the brand yet though. What are you using? Any thoughts on Battle Born?

I invested in the altE HLX3600 batteries in mid 2020. The altE headquarters is 30 minutes from home so getting items from there is easy, no shipping.
Battle Borns have a good reputation. There are many server rack LIFEPO4 batteries now available that are more cost effective. More competition now and prices are falling.
If you go 48v makes sure the batteries you select can be strung in series and support 48 v operation. The factor is the voltage rating of the FETs in the batteries BMS.

 

[cbisson]

The other plus of 48 V is the gauge of the DC cables can be smaller since the current at 48 V will be half of that at 24 V.

Do you use 1/0 AWG cable on your system?

 

[kloppk]

Will be using 2/0 per the manual. Already have the wire, lugs & crimper on hand.
For the 4024 the manual indicates 4/0 wire.

 

[cbisson]

Will be using 2/0 per the manual. Already have the wire, lugs & crimper on hand.
For the 4024 the manual indicates 4/0 wire.

Thanks Kurt. Just downloaded the manual. And I will definitely be going with the 48V system. If it makes sense to you I'm a believer.

 

[cbisson]

I invested in the altE HLX3600 batteries in mid 2020. The altE headquarters is 30 minutes from home so getting items from there is easy, no shipping.
Battle Borns have a good reputation. There are many server rack LIFEPO4 batteries now available that are more cost effective. More competition now and prices are falling.
If you go 48v makes sure the batteries you select can be strung in series and support 48 v operation. The factor is the voltage rating of the FETs in the batteries BMS.

So I started researching server rack batteries. Lots of advantage to the simplicity of racking and using bus bars instead of a bunch of series/parallel cables. Plus the price as you mentioned is good. I can get 48V 100 Ah for nearly half the price of 4x12V 100Ah.

If you have a moment and your inclined to, take a quick look at these. Would love to know your thoughts or recommendations.

48V 100AH EG4LL LCD Battery by EG4

ADD-ON CHARGER DEAL Get the EG4 LiFePo4 Battery Charger for 33% off in cart DESCRIPTION SPECS & MANUAL VIDEOS SHIPPING 48V 100AH-LL Battery by EG4Signature Solar’s premier lithium battery, GYLL, has been rebranded to EG4. This version is complete with an LCD readout on the face of the battery...

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Thanks,

-Craig

 

[DieselAddict]

I'm considering those for my final setup when my house on the lake property is built. Going with 50kw/hr of storage and a 14kw solar array.

 

[cbisson]

I'm considering those for my final setup when my house on the lake property is built. Going with 50kw/hr of storage and a 14kw solar array.

That exact brand and model?

 

[DieselAddict]

Yep. That exact one.

 

[NATCAD]

What would you think of assembling your own lip04 pack from individual cells c.b.?

 

[cbisson]

What would you think of assembling your own lip04 pack from individual cells c.b.?

Wouldn't be opposed to the idea.

 

[NATCAD]

DIY 48V 320Ah Grade B LiFePO4 Battery Build: 16kWh