Putting IP back in and Timing Refresher

[Dasgog]

An air gun into a full tank! Sounds scary . Could I do the same but use my weed sprayer? It’s been empty and cleaned so no residue, so the same thing but hand pump it which creates pressure.
I did the 3 fuel filter to 2 but I am sure the concept is same….. Pressurize fuel to the filters then verify fuel through and into IP?

 

[cattlerepairman]

@Dasgog I would think that anything that can create a few psi in the tank would work. No need to go crazy, just enough constant pressure to push fuel through the lines.

 

[Dasgog]

Roger that. Thank you, I’ll let you know how I do.

 

[rustystud]

@Dasgog I would think that anything that can create a few psi in the tank would work. No need to go crazy, just enough constant pressure to push fuel through the lines.

Yeah, you don't want to add another fuel exit on the tank ! Though pressurizing the tank is a good way to find rusted out areas.

 

[cattlerepairman]

Yeah, you don't want to add another fuel exit on the tank ! Though pressurizing the tank is a good way to find rusted out areas.

See, that is why I run an aluminium A3 tank!

 

[rustystud]

See, that is why I run an aluminium A3 tank!

I wish I could find an aluminum tank. Though I need two and the cost would be sky high !
I probably could have two stainless steel tanks made for the cost of factory aluminum ones .

I actually have used the method you mentioned "cattlerepairmen" . It was a common practice back in the day to pressurize the fuel tank to get prime. Though I once pressurized a fuel tank on a older IHC truck to get a Detroit 6V92 primed. It blew the tank ! Seems there was this rusted area no one had checked out. Well I proved it was leaking ! Though my Foreman chewed me out for costing the company money.
(Now a-days they just pressurize the secondary fuel filter.)
That is why most city buses have stainless steel tanks now. No rust, no leaks. Especially in this age of "enviromentalism" , fuel leaking is a real No No ! So if you guys ever have the chance to pick-up an older city bus for a good price you might want to consider it. Though most used city buses here in the states end up in Mexico.
Just as an aside: if you ever want to pressurize the fuel tank, use a regulator and keep the pressure under 10 PSI .

 

[Dasgog]

Well, air pressure doesn’t work. I have an IN TANK but fuel pump that isn’t working…. The way the deuce was bobbed and lowered and now have 6” above the tank, and being 40 gallons full I sure as F ain’t draining it and taking it out.

 

[Dasgog]

WILL IT START, even SHITTY if I am on the wrong stroke? I Know the IP is correct, but this makes no sense. So I need to know if it would start regardless

 

[cattlerepairman]

@Dasgog does air pressure not work in pushing the fuel or is the fuel line clogged?

 

[Dasgog]

Honestly, you guys want a truck! Come and get it.

naw, air pressure works fine. Matter of fact. I verified air pressure going INTO the IP and with the steel lines off, no pressure comes out.
I did NOT touch that head. I did not touch that fuel cut off lever. I did not touch a gd thing having to do with any of that. This truck worked 100%. All I did was take IP out to replace the seal where the booster pump sits on.
I have 100% fuel going from tank to filter 1 to going in booster pump to our booster pump to 2nd fuel filter and then going IN IP. But nothing…. 1 inch away, coming out of IP to injectors. I didn’t touch a DAMNED thing. I verified that cut off lever is in correct position. I verified it has just enough spring to be pulled then go back. Last year I rebuilt whole inside of head and ip. So yeah I’m kinda done.

 

[rustystud]

So you didn't touch anything on the injection pump itself ? You just replaced the booster pump seal correct ? This truck ran fine before, correct ?
Just trying to find a starting point here.
I would try and put air pressure to the injection pumps inlet and make sure air is coming out the pumps bypass valve. This would bypass all the high-pressure side of things.
If you do get air pressure coming out, then we need to dig deeper.

 

[Dasgog]

So you didn't touch anything on the injection pump itself ? You just replaced the booster pump seal correct ? This truck ran fine before, correct ?
Just trying to find a starting point here.
I would try and put air pressure to the injection pumps inlet and make sure air is coming out the pumps bypass valve. This would bypass all the high-pressure side of things.
If you do get air pressure coming out, then we need to dig deeper.

Morning. So last year I took the whole IP out and “rebuilt” it and changed all the O rings and gasket and everything on the head and the pump. I then put the bridle wire or protection wire on the side fuel shut off and had a nice spring action…. I put the pump back in and the truck ran like a champ. It always did.
A couple of weeks ago I noticed I had a leak coming out the bottom of the booster pump.
I took off the IP and took off the booster pump. I put the new seal in and realized I was leaking cause the top bolt of the booster was loose and spinning, I fixed that easy and out back in truck. the ONLY thing I did with that IP beyond the booster pump seal was open the door to see the red tooth, I touched nothing.
When I put the IP back in the truck, the battery and started sound fierce and strong but would NOT start. So we all figured it was the fuel lost its prime.
What “I” did was take the cable off at the end exhaust (the air pressure release from the tank) and made an adapter to my air pressure and ran it.
I took the hose off the IN to the Hydraulic Head and with air pressure got a beautiful steady flow going IN to the hydraulic head.
I loosened all 6 steel lines at the injectors and reconnect the hose going back into the hydraulic head. I ran air pressure..: NOTHING came out those steel lines!!
I then took off, the 2 I could easily loosen, 2 of the steel lines on the hydraulic head side…. Pushed air through. nothing! 1 inch away from where the fuel goes in the HH, I can’t get fuel coming out!
I then opened up the door again where the fuel cut off is and verified it was not stuck. I manually pushed back and forth the lever to see if fuel would pass through then.
Nothing.
Something in that head is blocking/stopping fuel from the Hydraulic Head IN to the “out” of each of the 6 steel lines.
And so at that point, my spirit was and is broken.

 

[NY Tom]

It is hard to add to this in a way that is very helpful. However, couple years back I had the HH off and after reinstallation I could not get the truck to start. Checked all the timing, everything. It was making me pull my hair out.

In the end the problem was that the electrical connection to the in tank pump had gotten loose or corroded in the middle of this project. In my haste to get it running I never noticed that the pump was not working. Later I let the pump run for 30 minutes and the truck started right up.

Maybe you really need that pump to be working despite seeing fuel at the IP. I cannot recall if the in tank pump pushes fuel all the way to those tubes up on top of the engine somehow.

If you really did not move anything as you described above it is probably something stupid and simple that is preventing you from starting.

Don't give up yet. Get a working pump and check all the little things again.

 

[Floridianson]

Just woke up to early again and read your post again and corrected my thought. Myself fix /change the in tank pump to start with as it going to help with fuel filter changes. Easy to check correct timing if you have not done that yet. Injection Pump Timing | SteelSoldiers

 

[rustystud]

First off, you might not get any air coming out the pressure lines ( steel lines going to the injectors) if the "fuel plunger" ( the rod/piston in the center of the Hydraulic Head) is at the top of it's bore. That is why I said to check the low pressure side of the pump. Does any air come out the "bypass valve" ?
If we know the air is flowing through the Hydraulic Head then it would most likely also flow out the high pressure side ( if the fuel plunger is in the correct position at the time) .

 

[Floridianson]

Rusty correct he should have had air /fuel coming out the "overflow valve" on the head. As for anything coming out the injector lines as to where the plunger is will not happen up or down. The delivery valve that opens on each stroke needs high pressure to open and deliver it to the correct cylinder when the plunger is aligned with the correct port for that cylinder.

 

[msgjd]

Having a "Soldier-B" is always easier/quicker when trying to do timing marks, cummins overheads, etc .. I have only had that luxury a few times and it is sorely missed, especially now that myself and everyone I know that was physically/mentally capable in the past ,. including myself, is now like "Where the h*** did I set that bar down? I just had it in my hand a second ago!!! ", or , "Dam**t, I can't remember which mark I 'm supposed to be on for the next step, where the heck did I put the TM's when I cleaned out the desk???" .. Finally, the body just doesn't want to cooperate and then there's painful reminders afterwards that can set you back for weeks .. And we wonder why the women, kids, and grandkids in out lives want us to get rid of everything ?? They probably can hear the yelling and bitc*ing" from a mile away

TM's are your friend and so are Soldier-B's , for keeping long-term sanity

 

[gringeltaube]

...... And we wonder why the women and kids in out lives want us to get rid of everything ?? They probably can hear the yelling and bitc*ing" from a mile away

What you said! Only good thing for a single old fart and working alone (= my case) is no-one will hear you cussing and throwing things....!

 

[msgjd]

i learned a few years ago not to throw things, cuz :

1: likely wouldn't be able to find it in a hurry because i was too mad to watch where it landed
2: forgotten it was lost by the time I get time to try looking for it again
3: This step is because of #2.. Cussing and swearing when it's not in the toolbox the next time you need it , getting angrier all the while spending
and hour or two looking in all the logical places including truck fenders and cabs, and in final desperation, calling friends whether or not they
borrowed it without ruffling their feathers, my being totally unaware it's still laying out there in the general direction of a patch of daisies

My helpful hint for Dasgogvis , soldier-B not only makes the task easier and can read the TM to you or bar it over while you do what you have to, soldier-B is an extra set of eyes when that wrench or whatever goes flying

 

[Dasgog]

Well this is a lot to wake up to reading as well as added possibilities.
So first and foremost…. It is a bobbed deuce and where a normal deuce had like 1.5’ or so on top of the fuel tank to work on etc. mine has been lowered to 6” or so. That current in tank fuel tank ain’t coming out. It’s got 40 gallons in there. I simply have no way to drain it etc. so all this I’m about to do has to be with a dead fuel pump BUT the lines have 0 air. Also, I drove it for 4 months without a fuel pump. Lucky? Maybe.

So tonight unless my work day is complete chaos, I’ll come home and based upon that photo, I’ll push air in the HH intake and see if air comes out 1 of the 3 valves on the other side..
If air does come out = ?
if air does not come out = ?

Just crazy how all of a sudden this thing stops. You mentioned fuel plunger being in correct position.. How would it not be? Reading every manual etc and guide it mentioned not “by the way make sure the plunger is in correct position”. Is this fixable or changeable with the IP in the truck? I know of this top bolt you speak of, never touched it in 5 years of glorious driving.
So I’ll verify the air coming out the low pressure side and we can go from there.

matt