Putting IP back in and Timing Refresher

[Dasgog]

First off the Deuce is a 4 stroke engine not a 2 stroke.
Now about the valves. What I would do if you have an extra pair of eyes is to look at the valves. First the "exhaust valve" will open than the "intake valve" will open. When it (the intake valve) is fully closed your almost at Top Dead Center. That is when you set the mark on the crankshaft.
If your doing this by yourself then when the intake valve is fully closed (slight movement of rocker will tell that) continue to rotate the crank until the marks line up.

I will indeed be doing this alone. Now that I think about it, when I was doing it before (angling radiator and removing fan blade) I was cranking it with a huge socket. Anyway, when I saw the marks line up, the 2 front (near radiator) rockers had 0 movement. I rotated the engine again until the marks lined up and the first 2 had slight movement. At that point, when I thought it was correctly timed, I put in the IP. I sat on the fender and had a socket and with the gear and 3 bolts in (loose) I pulled the IP to where the white tooth was dead center and then took my phone and angled it to see the red tooth. Knowing I saw the red tooth, I then made sure the white mark was still center and righted the 3 bolts on the gear nice and tight. After I tightened them I of course went back and verified harmonic was correct notch. White tooth correct bitch and again, via angling my camera I saw, I really thought I saw yet something is nagging at me, the red tooth.
I feel doing all that (up to the red tooth) was the e correct way to time it,
This weekend, I’ll do as you said;
Maybe I’ll get lucky first time maybe not… I’ll keep transfer in neutral, brake on, 1st gear and I’ll turn stubby shaft until I get it lined up on the marker (of course there will be lots of back and forth). When I get balancer marked I’ll see if those 2 rockets are tight or loose. What I still for some stupid ads reason don’t know is, will it be correct 1 of 2 of me rotating or 1 of 4? If it’s 1 of 2 then I know right now it IS timed. Maybe not the red tooth, but definitely the motor. If it’s 1 of 4 of me rotating then maybe I did miss it and there’s a “more loose” rocker. But I feel I did it.
Anyway, I’ll set it all up and then see if the red tooth is there. If not, but all else is lined up, I’ll work with the pump then.

 

[Dasgog]

Also, in the TM, where would "timing your engine" be? I seem to not be able to find it, I even looked under the IP/Fuel section. Maybe I am overlooking it?

 

[KN6KXR]

Also, in the TM, where would "timing your engine" be? I seem to not be able to find it, I even looked under the IP/Fuel section. Maybe I am overlooking it?

Try TM 9-2320-361-24-1, WP 0069 00 for the "Fuel Injection Pump Replacement". This is the field level manual meant for swapping the entire unit at the field motor pool level. While you are doing this remove the valve covers and adjust the lash. Use the procedure located at the end of WP 0031 00 for the lash.

Should you wish to dig deeper into the HH to injector pump timing and assemblies use TM 9-2910-226-34 this is the technical manual for the entire injector pump assembly with governor. In particular you may want to look at section 3-34 on page 3-68 and go from there.

Hope that helps.

 

[Dasgog]

Try TM 9-2320-361-24-1, WP 0069 00 for the "Fuel Injection Pump Replacement". This is the field level manual meant for swapping the entire unit at the field motor pool level. While you are doing this remove the valve covers and adjust the lash. Use the procedure located at the end of WP 0031 00 for the lash.

Should you wish to dig deeper into the HH to injector pump timing and assemblies use TM 9-2910-226-34 this is the technical manual for the entire injector pump assembly with governor. In particular you may want to look at section 3-34 on page 3-68 and go from there.

Hope that helps.

Believe it or not, that was the guide I had used. As a matter of fact, in the 5 years I have had this thing, I have taken out the IP 3 times and all times after it went in, it fired up like a dream. But something is different this time around. And to be even more as a matter of fact, those other 3 times I DID mess with the head and the cut off and rebuild etc.
It is so stupid. I set the engine to TDC (harmonic line up and rockers I was able to slightly move) So BAM, engine done. As I out in the IP. I rotated the front bolt until I could see the white tooth and the red tooth though both off. As I put the IP in and put the gear in and loosely connected the 3 bolts, I grabbed a ratchet and pulled the IP towards me until I saw the white notch DEAD STR8 UP BUTTERY smooth on the notch. I WILL say, I took a very blurry shot at an angle of the HEAD and I, at least, told myself I did see the tooth. I mean it was red, so like... I then tightened the 3 bolts holding the gear on. Put the front gear cover on, connected all hoses etc.
Verified air and fuel both going from tank through filter 1, through booster pump in, through filter 2 and into HH and then outside the low pressure. I did NOT however, get anything out the 6 injector line ports.
I did verify the pencil trick and saw visibly the plunger/button move up and down. I also verified when cranking the engine, the booster pump was pushing fuel.
And yet it does not start.
Only difference is this;
Prior to taking IP out, I had no fuel pump but it was working when it went bad so every nook and cranny has diesel. I still have no fuel pump, and those lines did all empty out...BUT I primed it all! Fuel flow from tank to OUT of HH.

I am gonna go home and verify TDC and then white tooth.. I am then gonna get my mirrors etc and verify I see the red tooth 1 notch prior, near firewall.
Other than that, I simply have no other ideas or really amibition to carry on. I hope to all hell that red tooth is not visible. I saw the long debate on if the rd tooth had to do with timing or just a angle to take the HH out and I do not really care... I just hope I do not see that damned tooth. Because that would be the answer.

 

[Dasgog]

Alright.
Left work early lost lay, cause I need to figure this out.

VERIFIED TDC. Correct Engine timed on balancer, 2 front rockers have play in them. Rotated again, 0 play, rotated again and has play.
That engine is TDC.
VERIFIED the white tooth is 100% dead spot on
VERIFIED red tooth is 1 notch to the right (closer to firewall).
VERIFIED air and fuel from tank to low pressure outlet on side of HH.
VERIFIED red tooth doesn’t free spin, is held fast at one notch off.
VERIFIED booster pump is spinning and pushing out fuel.

I am not officially lost and very close to letting my investment sit here until Jesus comes.

 

[Dasgog]

Alright.
Left work early lost lay, cause I need to figure this out.

VERIFIED TDC. Correct Engine timed on balancer, 2 front rockers have play in them. Rotated again, 0 play, rotated again and has play.
That engine is TDC.
VERIFIED the white tooth is 100% dead spot on
VERIFIED red tooth is 1 notch to the right (closer to firewall).
VERIFIED air and fuel from tank to low pressure outlet on side of HH.
VERIFIED red tooth doesn’t free spin, is held fast at one notch off.
VERIFIED booster pump is spinning and pushing out fuel.

I am not officially lost and very close to letting my investment sit here until Jesus comes.

Jack at the local surplus yard keeps saying it’s gotta be something with the fuel shut off and that I verified externally every link and everything is good, that it’s gotta be inside. Maybe the nib fell out?

 

[Dasgog]

Right wrong good bad. I just sprayed a good amount of carb cleaner in the air intake closer to the engine. NOTHING.

dude.’is there like an equivalent to a glow plug or a spark plug or something shit went bad???

 

[williamh]

That motor fires on pressure only , carb cleaner don’t work. I would pull the air filter and use a “little” either. Most people that post here hate that word but it will tell you if you got enough compression to detonate diesel fuel. Don’t over do it. Just a good spray. At least you’ll know if something else is going on.

 

[Dasgog]

That motor fires on pressure only , carb cleaner don’t work. I would pull the air filter and use a “little” either. Most people that post here hate that word but it will tell you if you got enough compression to detonate diesel fuel. Don’t over do it. Just a good spray. At least you’ll know if something else is going on.

Alright. I will do that and definitely be gentle cause I know there’s nothing to regulate the spray going in. I will hit up O’Reilly or whomever and get it. Thank you

 

[Dasgog]

Well ether doesn’t work.
I’m done. **** it

 

[Shooter308]

Checked compression?

 

[rustystud]

Well ether doesn’t work.
I’m done. **** it

You didn't even get a hint of firing off with the ether ? That would of course bypass all the fuel and pump issues. You said this truck ran fine before you took off the injection pump. That's true correct ?
Any engine would fire off a little with ether. That would mean you have some other major issue going on here.
Did you use enough ether maybe? At the transit department we would soak a rag in ether and put it up next to the air filter. That would even fire off the old Detroits. At this point it would be worth it to see if your truck will even start.

 

[Dasgog]

You didn't even get a hint of firing off with the ether ? That would of course bypass all the fuel and pump issues. You said this truck ran fine before you took off the injection pump. That's true correct ?
Any engine would fire off a little with ether. That would mean you have some other major issue going on here.
Did you use enough ether maybe? At the transit department we would soak a rag in ether and put it up next to the air filter. That would even fire off the old Detroits. At this point it would be worth it to see if your truck will even start.

I got the can of ether, sprayed some in but it did not take. NOW with that being said, I barely sprayed any cause of all the negative things I heard... I went and sprayed more and then the truck would not turn... I mean , how? Yeah.. Both batteries 2x12 both died. Probably due to my trying 10000 times to crank it, SO I have to assume that the ether didn't turn it cause the battery wasn't strong enough to turn it.
I refuse to think a truck that worked 100% until I replaced a damned booster pump seal went bad at random. I am not done yet, my stupid ass pride won't let me give up. Last night charged both batteries. Gonna try without ether one more time then I will spray some in again. I think last night was pure dumb luck that my batteries died.
This truck will start, even if it starts on it's own as I shove it off the grand canyon...after I tow it there.

 

[cattlerepairman]

This truck will start,

Yes, it will. Don't give up. It is a problem to be solved.

 

[Dasgog]

One Spray; Nothing
Two Spray; Clunk Clunk Nothing

Hey Bella go sit in the seat for me and push the start button til I say stop.

Third Spray; Sounded like something was wrong, Nothing.

Fourth Spray and unloaded that can; Fired Up and sounds gorgeous. Let it run for 5 mins. Shut it off. Turned back on like Butter.

mf Ether is my new besty.

 

[cattlerepairman]

One Spray; Nothing
Two Spray; Clunk Clunk Nothing

Hey Bella go sit in the seat for me and push the start button til I say stop.

Third Spray; Sounded like something was wrong, Nothing.

Fourth Spray and unloaded that can; Fired Up and sounds gorgeous. Let it run for 5 mins. Shut it off. Turned back on like Butter.

mf Ether is my new besty.

Are you saying it finally pulled fuel through and now starts and runs on its own?

If so, it is beneficial that you did not tow it to the edge of that canyon

Sent from my SM-G991W using Tapatalk

 

[Dasgog]

I had the Tow Truck on speed dial. Yes, it now starts up beautifully on its own. If I was talking to you in private chat I’d almost say I nearly cried.

I thank you all for all of your help and keeping me going with ideas and even KNOWING I was getting stubborn and bratty and still being positive. I truly appreciate you all. Without you all and this board, I’d be nowhere beyond nothing.

 

[gringeltaube]

Moral of the story: Don't ever touch your IP again, unless you have a fully functioning lift pump!

 

[KN6KXR]

Well I guess this proves the minor debate (found in another thread) about whether or not the motor will prime if you've lost the tank pump and cracked open the system. The answer is "Probably not and if so it'll be a bitch!"

 

[Dasgog]

Another moral of the story is ; if you have a leak, don’t fix it just to get rid of the leak. It’s a 50 year old engine! IT LEAKS