re-wiring my MEP-004a for different voltages, including single phase

[sewerzuk]

Here are the photos

Those label plates are on the ASK, and not on the generator...pretty normal to see both sets of ratings on that data plate.
99.9% sure you have a 400hz unit.

 

[Ken_86gt]

yes- those are generic to the ASK kit. The easiest may be to look at the frequency meter and see what its range is.

 

[PeterD]

Here are the photos

Nice tow vehicle, are you on the HML (I have a 95 and a 99, both HMCS?) Also, your MEP and mine are of the same vintage, both are 89s.


Fortunately for me, mine is a 004 and gives 60 HZ power just fine.

The engine and a lot of the other stuff on yours is valuable as spare parts. Find a 004 with a blown engine and you will be all set.

 

[James Vick]

Peter
That is a 2004 H1. I am one of the founding members of the H1 Psycho Squad. So the way i see it, I have a great boat anchor. But, the trailer will serve as a great water tank hauler.

Thanks to all for your input.

Jim

 

[sewerzuk]

Peter
So the way i see it, I have a great boat anchor.
Jim

No! Don't throw it out...100% of the engine system, and about 95% of the electrical system are interchangeable with the 60hz sets. The 400hz sets are needed for parts to keep the 60hz ones running!

Sorry for your luck...but you're not the first to make that mistake. The 400hz/60hz question is one that a LOT of people ask.

 

[RWG]

Will this work on the newer 805 and 806 units?

 

[sewerzuk]

I have heard that some of them use 10 lead generator heads...if that is the case, then my instructions will not work with those sets. Even if they have 12 lead heads, I can't guarantee that the conversion is exactly the same since I've never had one in my shop.
I'd take a look at the set you are considering and see if it has T11 and T12 terminals. If not, then you have a 10 lead generator.

 

[SurfinElvis]

I have completed my conversion as shown in the youtube video. Your video does not reference the resistors as described in this thread. Are the resistors a necessity to complete this process?
Also, post #40 refers to relocating x12eg16n from t12 to t13, but the video advises to move it to t11. Am I missing something important here?
And by the way, hats off to sewerzuk for this info!

 

[sewerzuk]

I have completed my conversion as shown in the youtube video. Your video does not reference the resistors as described in this thread. Are the resistors a necessity to complete this process?
Also, post #40 refers to relocating x12eg16n from t12 to t13, but the video advises to move it to t11. Am I missing something important here?
And by the way, hats off to sewerzuk for this info!

Glad I could be of help!

The resistors are an option that I didn't put into the video. The adjust the % power meter, % total current meter, and overload trips to accurately reflect the load on the generator. It works fine if you don't install them; the meters just read a bit too high and the overload trips a bit too early.

T11 or T13 both work; they are electrically the same point, since they are connected with a bus bar. Do whichever one is the easiest for you!

 

[SurfinElvis]

Does this look like an acceptable 40 ohm resistor? Just found two on *bay for about ten bucks each. From the picture in post #90, it appears you did not splice into any wires, rather added a shunt across the contacts. Is this correct?

 

[sewerzuk]

View attachment 399025Does this look like an acceptable 40 ohm resistor? Just found two on *bay for about ten bucks each. From the picture in post #90, it appears you did not splice into any wires, rather added a shunt across the contacts. Is this correct?

Yep, that one should work fine. It is about the right resistance value, and its 25W power capacity is more than enough. But, you do need 3 of them (you said that there were 2 in an ebay auction). Try looking at www.digi-key.com before you buy the ebay ones...I think you'll find them for about the same price there.

 

[PeterD]

On those (three) resistors. My company generates a number of short heat-sink cuttings that are scrap (end of an extrusion that is not long enough for our product, these are about an inch or so long by four inches wide!) If anyone ones one or two, or three of these (to mount their resistors on), I'll give 'em away free, but you'll have to pay shipping of $5.

 

[wanderingwillys]

Hey guys this may well be better served with a seperate thead but figured I would start here for a little advice:

I have a MEP-005a S/N KZ04624 that I just recently got running for the first time; it took a little bit of work to bleed out the fuel system and finally get it to fire but now it starts easily and even started this am after sitting for 2 weeks in below freezing weather while I was up in Alaska

However when I run it and hold the start switch to flash the field it takes about 10 to 15 seconds till the volts jump - it is set in low range at the moment and the voltage jumps to about 150v and the adjustment knob makes little or no change to the adjustment over the entire range of travel. The set produces ~130 - 135 volts with the throttle in idle.

Also I am only displaying ~47 hertz (basically pegged on the low end of the meter) - the needle bounces up to ~53 - 54 hertz when the set first begins producing voltage and does a similar bounce when you shut the set down.

As I have nothing hooked to the set yet I don't see any movement out of the power meters...

Any thoughts as to the issue? - I am thinking the electronic governor must not be working as I cannot adjust volts or hertz output levels...

And then second question:

The main reason I got the set was to power a 480v 3ph 17" LeBlonde tool and die lathe (draws about 30amps on startup) up at my property where the only transmission power is 220v 1ph...


I would however like to do the single phase conversion to provide back up power to the house and shop in the event of a power outage... Is there a viable was to make the set easily switchable between these two ranges?

The only thought I had was to get another enclosure and bring the 12 leads out so you could make a switching station between the two setups... Or possibly get a second board and have it able to be connected with a set of plug in recepticals (I know we use 4 conductor 60amp 600v plugs for equipment at work so the capacity should be possible)

Otherwise if I understand correctly I would have to move the range board and reconnect the buss bar plus the meter wiring each and every time I went from 480v 3ph to 220v 1ph? Right?

I know its alot to bite off in one post but would greatly appreciate everyones thoughts - thanks

Matt

 

[sewerzuk]

However when I run it and hold the start switch to flash the field it takes about 10 to 15 seconds till the volts jump - it is set in low range at the moment and the voltage jumps to about 150v and the adjustment knob makes little or no change to the adjustment over the entire range of travel. The set produces ~130 - 135 volts with the throttle in idle.

Also I am only displaying ~47 hertz (basically pegged on the low end of the meter) - the needle bounces up to ~53 - 54 hertz when the set first begins producing voltage and does a similar bounce when you shut the set down.

Matt

I will address your other questions after we have solved the frequency issue.
My first question...are you only running the set at idle?
Frequency is dependent on RPM, and it will stay pegged low if you have the set at idle. The voltage regulator/exciter will also not work properly at idle and may explain your voltage/excitation issues.
You should use the throttle to bring engine RPM up until the frequency meter reads 60 (it will only indicate after the set is producing power).
The frequency knob on your set will not do anything.

 

[aczlan]

However when I run it and hold the start switch to flash the field it takes about 10 to 15 seconds till the volts jump - it is set in low range at the moment and the voltage jumps to about 150v and the adjustment knob makes little or no change to the adjustment over the entire range of travel. The set produces ~130 - 135 volts with the throttle in idle.
Also I am only displaying ~47 hertz (basically pegged on the low end of the meter) - the needle bounces up to ~53 - 54 hertz when the set first begins producing voltage and does a similar bounce when you shut the set down.
As I have nothing hooked to the set yet I don't see any movement out of the power meters...
Any thoughts as to the issue? - I am thinking the electronic governor must not be working as I cannot adjust volts or hertz output levels...

1. Get a meter that will display volts and hertz ($30 at Lowes will get you a Kill-A-Watt which does this, $60 will get you something like my Ideal 61-340) and check the accuracy of the gauges. They do fail as do their transducers.
2. Put a load on it that can handle high/low voltages (a 1500 watt heater?) to even things out
3. Report back what the Kill-A-Watt or meter have to say about volts and hertz


Aaron Z

 

[wanderingwillys]

Hey guys - thanks for the quick attention - I have a fluke 187 at my disposal so I should be able to verify the voltage and hertz without issue - I was taking the readings off the gauge panel with the throttle control pulled all the way out so the set was at the maximum RPM that can be developed manually - the hertz reading on the meter was still only showing 47 Hz...

I have yet to put a tach on the engine to set if the throttle is set correctly and the operating RPM can be reached (it may be as simple a that...)

Would it be better to have a load that I can hook to the unit or should we determine the cause of the fault prior to loading the unit?

When measuring the frequency of the output which set of terminals provide the best representative reading - all three should be the same correct?

Thanks again

Matt

 

[Triple Jim]

When you measured 47 Hz, you also measured the engine RPM, which was 1410. Get the frequency and voltage correct before connecting a load. All three phases will always read the same frequency.

Have you looked at the motor on your lathe? Even fairly large ones wired for 480V can often (usually) be configured for 208-240 by changing connections under the access plate on the motor. If you do that and configure the generator for that output, you can run it from the 3-phase output of the generator, and power single phase 120/240 loads from individual phases from the generator outputs. You'll have 120V and 208V, so unless you have a particularly sensitive load that really needs 240, it will work well.

 

[sewerzuk]

Hey guys - thanks for the quick attention - I have a fluke 187 at my disposal so I should be able to verify the voltage and hertz without issue - I was taking the readings off the gauge panel with the throttle control pulled all the way out so the set was at the maximum RPM that can be developed manually - the hertz reading on the meter was still only showing 47 Hz...

I have yet to put a tach on the engine to set if the throttle is set correctly and the operating RPM can be reached (it may be as simple a that...)

Would it be better to have a load that I can hook to the unit or should we determine the cause of the fault prior to loading the unit?

When measuring the frequency of the output which set of terminals provide the best representative reading - all three should be the same correct?

Thanks again

Matt

You are correct; frequency will be the same at the convenience receptacle and the output terminals. You can measure it at any of those locations. Remember that the main breaker needs to be closed if you want to measure output at the terminal lugs...for that reason I recommend measuring at the convenience receptacle (I have run into several faulty main breakers).

A tach is not needed if you have a Fluke 187; if you set the engine to achieve 60hz then it is operating at the proper RPM.

I would not put a load on the set until you have it at 60 hz. A purely resistive load can handle odd frequencies and voltages (heater or incandescent lighting), but if your set is indeed running at a low RPM you will work the voltage regulator REALLY hard by loading it at such a low frequency.

 

[wanderingwillys]

Ok - so the numbers I had provided earlier were off the set instrumentation - with the test meter on the convenience outlet I am getting the following:

106 - 110v depending on the position of the voltage adjustment knob (95v at idle) and then the kicker - I am only reading 36 - 37 Hz...

The throttle cable was fully extended when I took the readings - I also checked the position of the actuator arm on the injection pump and it seems to be at full travel but did not loosen the cable to verify it will not move any further - pressing on it didn't yield any rise in engine speed...

So I am trying to think what else would limit the RPM - fuel restriction? But the set runs fairly stable and is not hunting or surging like I would expect with a fuel limited engine...

Jim - I believe you are correct about the motor being able the be reconfigured at the peckerhead but I don't know enough about the controls (it has a number of control systems to run the jog features - some electric and some hydraulic) Either way if I was able to bring it back down to 208 - 240 3ph I would still need to swap back and forth all the connections to be able to back up the house power - or just get a bigger rotary phase converter for the shop and leave the genset in split phase all the time...

 

[sewerzuk]

Ok - so the numbers I had provided earlier were off the set instrumentation - with the test meter on the convenience outlet I am getting the following:

106 - 110v depending on the position of the voltage adjustment knob (95v at idle) and then the kicker - I am only reading 36 - 37 Hz...

The throttle cable was fully extended when I took the readings - I also checked the position of the actuator arm on the injection pump and it seems to be at full travel but did not loosen the cable to verify it will not move any further - pressing on it didn't yield any rise in engine speed...

So I am trying to think what else would limit the RPM - fuel restriction? But the set runs fairly stable and is not hunting or surging like I would expect with a fuel limited engine...

So your set is running at idle...let's correct that before going any further!

A diesel engine may not exhibit surging if it has a fuel delivery problem...in fact, it often times will slowly idle down until it dies.

You said it seems as though the throttle arm is moving through its full range of travel with no problem (this is the arm in between the injection pump and the engine block). Have you tried moving the governor arm (the one on the outboard side of the injection pump)?

You may also want check your return line for any blockage.

Have you pulled the fuel inlet to the injection pump and allowed it to flow into a container? You should get enough fuel flow to fill up a quart container in under 30 seconds.

If the above checks are OK, your injection pump may need to be rebuilt.

As far as the re-configuring the motor 208-240 3 phase, the advantage is that you could send single phase 120/208 to your house (you could get about 20kw out of the generator this way) and still run your lathe without reconfiguring the generator at all. I'm certainly not an expert, but I have built a few rotary phase converters and set up quite a few 3 phase machines in various shops. MOST of the time, lights, solenoids, displays, and other control systems are 120v and are fed from a control transformer. If you can locate this control transformer in your lathe, you can simply move the power supply leads on the primary side to the low voltage taps (assuming it has taps for low voltage...I'm betting it does). I did this with my own lathe and milling machine when I purchased them; it really wasn't very difficult (although mine weren't CNC and the only 120v loads on them were the motor controller contactors and a DRO on the mill).
If you're dead set on running your generator in single phase (or you have some 240v load in your house that can't be run on 208v for some reason), then there are still advantages to configuring your lathe for low voltage. The single phase conversion to 120/240 and the change back to 120/208 wye can be accomplished fairly quickly once the bus bar is cut. The change from 120/240 single phase to 240/416 is a bit more involved (requires removal of the reconnection plate). In the interest of saving time, it would be in your best interest to keep all of your 3 phase loads at 120/208.

If you need any help with your generator or the single phase conversion, you're only about 3 hours away from me...