Rear Suspension

[Olly]

I was wondering how much articulation I would lose if I switched the camel back suspension on the rear of my xm818 to front five ton leaf springs? And before everybody says don't bob the truck trust me I'm not planning to. The reason I want to switch the suspension is two parts. 1) I like the simplicity of the front leaf spring set up, and 2) really, really want to put the dual 49's on my truck and if I use front leaf springs they'd be under the frame as oppose to on the side which would allow me to pull the tires in and still be street legal. I know people have done this before with bobbed trucks so it's not completely unheard of. Just was wondering how much it would affect the offroad capability of the truck because it's always function with me before form. Any feedback would be appreciated and it's not that I don't like bobbed trucks but I figured I got the 6x6 because I wanted 6x6. Also would 5 ton or 2.5 leaf springs be better?

 

[snowtrac nome]

there is a reason you don't see that set up your talking about on commercial trucks or trailers. you could switch to an airride but you would need leveling valves or when one wheel hit a bump it would pull the other off the ground.

 

[Olly]

Good point didn't think of the wheel hop thing.... thanks for the suggestion but I don't want to go airbag route like the simplicity of the springs. Any other ideas I'm open to it.

 

[98G]

Pull the tires in how? Changing axles? Chopping up axles?

Dualled 14.00s is bridge truck wheels or equivalent. You're not just a little bit over the 102" legal max. At that point you're way over. Someone measured, and going from memory it was something like 115".

 

[simp5782]

Be easier to just use something off a civilian truck like a cv713 with with rubber pads. Be cheaper in the long run and better on your back. Articulation wont be much cause yeah the frame is In the way. Hint as to.why they use the suspension they do on the 5 tons.

Good luck trying to make it out with only 8 inches of space to work with. 1400s are 15.1in wide. X 4 plus your frame width of 34in puts you at 94.5 inches. No way to get under 102 with spacing between the wheels.

Buy the oversize permit. It's like $50 a year here. Put oversize easy add on placards on it like a bridge truck has anyway and roll on

 

[98G]

Look at lindsey97's avatar pic for articulation of the stock rear suspension. The mod you suggest would remove much of this capability....

https://www.steelsoldiers.com/member.php?60120-lindsey97

Edit to add screenshot

 

[snowtrac nome]

A Henderson walking beam would be simple and easy, you would have a choice of rubber blocks or springs. The early 915's used Henderson suspension with springs but running empty you could have fooled me, didn't feel like anything was going up and down even with weight

 

[Olly]

98G-I would have room to pull the tires in if the springs weren't in the way. I was thinking along the way of custom wheels, or altering backspaing, flipping hubs, or spacers yada...yada. The bridge trucks were something like 115" wide but that was why I was going to change the springs to under the frame. I was more concerned about the prefermance of the suspension and as snowtrac nome pointed out there would be issues with wheel hop. But I think outside the box most often sometimes things work and sometimes they don't. I've been fabricating for 15 years now so I'm sure I'll keep trying to look for new ways to look at things ****, a lot of people told me you couldn't make a 7 ft van that could compete at NHRA events and still be street legal while planting 1100hp to the rear wheels.... I didn't listen though people should never put limitations on their abilities. New to the 5ton truck world so that's why I ask question never hurt having to redo things does. But was not intending on cutting the axles or changing them in any way other then the spring mounts. Thanks for the reply and concern.

 

[simp5782]

Fabrication apparently didnt teach you anything about tires. There is minimum spacing requirement for duals. Unless you really wanna burn rubber

https://www.pavementinteractive.org...esign-parameters/additional-tire-information/

 

[Olly]

Be easier to just use something off a civilian truck like a cv713 with with rubber pads. Be cheaper in the long run and better on your back. Articulation wont be much cause yeah the frame is In the way. Hint as to.why they use the suspension they do on the 5 tons.

Good luck trying to make it out with only 8 inches of space to work with. 1400s are 15.1in wide. X 4 plus your frame width of 34in puts you at 94.5 inches. No way to get under 102 with spacing between the wheels.

Buy the oversize permit. It's like $50 a year here. Put oversize easy add on placards on it like a bridge truck has anyway and roll on

Yeah, you're probably right about the no way to fit it but sometimes the challenge gets ya thinking and I've seen some of the stuff you've done so you think outside the box too. That's what makes it fun.

 

[Olly]

A Henderson walking beam would be simple and easy, you would have a choice of rubber blocks or springs. The early 915's used Henderson suspension with springs but running empty you could have fooled me, didn't feel like anything was going up and down even with weight

Thought about the Henderson walking beam just wasn't sure about the width... but it's a thought

 

[Olly]

Fabrication apparently didnt teach you anything about tires. There is minimum spacing requirement for duals. Unless you really wanna burn rubber

https://www.pavementinteractive.org...esign-parameters/additional-tire-information/

Yeah, I know about the spacing between the tires.... but there's always other ways narrowing the frame if I really wanted to get that involved in making the duals fit but I don't..... Just throwing different ideas out you never know when the wrong one will be right.

 

[98G]

You'll appreciate the following quote from Robert Heinlein -

"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it anyway."

Robert A. Heinlein

 

[Olly]

You'll appreciate the following quote from Robert Heinlein -

"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it anyway."

Robert A. Heinlein

Yes, I do appreciate it. We only become experts by experimenting, experience and guessing a lot.

 

[simp5782]

I have enough fingers and I dont have my shoes or socks on so I can expertly tell you the math doesnt add up with the truck frame and tires

 

[simp5782]

You could dual up 365/85/20s. They are 45in tall and 14in wide so you have 4 more inches to adjust for.

 

[tobyS]

Springs change the driveline angle as they move up and down. With any articulation (like the above picture), one will face up and the other face down....and that is assuming you have both parallel to the frame to start with. Now if you were thinking about 4 links and airbags, it might be do-able.

 

[Floridianson]

Hendrickson suspension but who's counting and is a good solid suspension for heavy weights.

 

[Olly]

Thanks for all the various ideas Like I had put in to original post my first concern was the articulation of the suspension. Do not want to sacrifice the off road capabilities. As for the dual tires it was just a thought. Could probably make it work but as I posted earlier I wanted it but it's not the biggest deal in the world if I gotta go with super singles. Measured my truck today probably could narrow the back frame to gain space but I don't think it's worth the effort especially since I need this girl to work. But hey at least it started a good conversation thanks again for all the good replys.

 

[Csm Davis]

Thanks for all the various ideas Like I had put in to original post my first concern was the articulation of the suspension. Do not want to sacrifice the off road capabilities. As for the dual tires it was just a thought. Could probably make it work but as I posted earlier I wanted it but it's not the biggest deal in the world if I gotta go with super singles. Measured my truck today probably could narrow the back frame to gain space but I don't think it's worth the effort especially since I need this girl to work. But hey at least it started a good conversation thanks again for all the good replys.

Four link will keep the articulation and air bags will make the ride much better not sure how much space would be needed between the frame and the tire but probably about 2 inches minimum to avoid rubbing in off camber situations and you need to pick a different tire either 395's or 16.00's the 14.00's are going away. The way I am going is probably over width permit but you could also setup to run the duals only off-road and just the inside wheels when on-road.

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