Rebuilding after 15 years of storage

[PHOENIX-GER]

If you are going the 6.5 route, why not add a turbo? Having driven both NA and with turbo, I can tell you it will drive much better.

I definitely want to avoid the heat problem .... so i go the route of 6500 optimizer

I have a secret idea where this overheating could have happened: every emissioncontrol was very difficult. Usually the engine run a long time on the test stand to got a value. That means almost always up to the governed speed when the vehicle is stationary. My wife always went away, she could never listen to this torture. I have not found a test bench that managed to do this without tricks to achieve the German values. As a rule, it worked best when a spacer was used under the accelerator pedal, which gave an even accelerator pedal pressure shortly before the governed speed



I am always quite comfortable on the road because the background noise is almost damaging to hearing as the speed increases. The ruts following is not so pleasant either dependent of course of the tires. We use all-terrain-tires. Our cruise speed is usually 90 km/h / 55 Meilen.
I need the power for trailer

Why not a turbo?
I am not sure that the old transmission THM400, the NP208 will handle that extrapower at least i have read by AM that the exchange from the J-Motor to 6,5 only take the NA not the Turbo Version.

 

[Rutjes]

The turbo will not add a ton of HP. I believe a 6.2 is rated 160HP or 185HP for the military version. Not sure where those 25HPs would've come from? Only difference is the EGR valve. I don't believe the EGR robs the engine of that much power? A 6.5 TD is rated at 215 HP from the factory.

These trucks are build with heavy duty parts. The transmission, transfer case axles/differentials will handle the added power from a turbo just fine. The parts on our trucks are sought after by many with high HP builds or extreme off-roading.

Overheating is supposed to be a big problem on 6.2's and 6.5's. Especially on the back 2 cylinders. The best cooling upgrades you can do is use a 99+ waterpump (better balanced flow), a heavy duty (Hayden) fan clutch and Duramax fan (more blades, larger diameter and better design. Flows way more air). The 99+ waterpump and Duremax fan will require a serpentine belt drive system. The V-belt system rotates clockwise and the serpentine rotates counterclockwise. If you want to stick with the V-belt system you can get an early HMMWV fan. It will flow more air compared to the stock 6.2 or 6.5 fan. Actually, I have one laying around. It was supposed to go on my friend's truck, but after ordering we decided to swap the V-belt system for serpentine belt. I believe they are a pretty rare find nowadays.

There's a guy over at The Truck Stop forums who sells new waterpumps cast by AMG (P400 pumps?). I bought 2 from him.

 

[PHOENIX-GER]

The turbo will not add a ton of HP. I believe a 6.2 is rated 160HP or 185HP for the military version. Not sure where those 25HPs would've come from? Only difference is the EGR valve. I don't believe the EGR robs the engine of that much power? A 6.5 TD is rated at 215 HP from the factory.

These trucks are build with heavy duty parts. The transmission, transfer case axles/differentials will handle the added power from a turbo just fine. The parts on our trucks are sought after by many with high HP builds or extreme off-roading.

Overheating is supposed to be a big problem on 6.2's and 6.5's. Especially on the back 2 cylinders. The best cooling upgrades you can do is use a 99+ waterpump (better balanced flow), a heavy duty (Hayden) fan clutch and Duramax fan (more blades, larger diameter and better design. Flows way more air). The 99+ waterpump and Duremax fan will require a serpentine belt drive system. The V-belt system rotates clockwise and the serpentine rotates counterclockwise. If you want to stick with the V-belt system you can get an early HMMWV fan. It will flow more air compared to the stock 6.2 or 6.5 fan. Actually, I have one laying around. It was supposed to go on my friend's truck, but after ordering we decided to swap the V-belt system for serpentine belt. I believe they are a pretty rare find nowadays.

There's a guy over at The Truck Stop forums who sells new waterpumps cast by AMG (P400 pumps?). I bought 2 from him.

I was not aware of the overheating problem. So far I haven't been to a forum or need any other information about the truck. Before it was put into storage, it ran like clockwork despite the now obvious damage. Never had a failure of overheating also not with trailer - but the Chevy is in germany only on 3,5 to trailer authorized. More trailer load would result in an annual technical inspection for road authorization (with 3.5 tons the usual biennial inspection remains) and a tachograph. As i don`t need more load....

There is no build in on special parts - all is just original like bought 1996 except the cooler. Cooler was leak after 15 years storage.
So i should looking for the GEP6500 Optimizer and if still got not better waterpump and Fan should this be changed.

I am still unsure of turbo
What i have seen is, that the 6,5 turbo used is on offer, the NA ? as Optimizer not the first ones ? didnt see it until now
The descision will be there if we got an offer for a good used one
It could be also closely with the big batterys in use.
We needed new Batterys and as there is space enough we choosed the varta which are not same dimension like original. So need a bit more space... and of course new mountings. Don`t mind the resistor on the aircleaner. It was a picture taken of one from severals test during search on the electrical failure of generator 2 (for info: it was a sticky alternator carbon in a new alternator with a new switch... - now we learned of it and testing new parts before build in)

Next question going the stanadyne DB2 under overhaul or give him the DS4 - if using DS4 what need it more changing.... are there other options?

I have also contact technical office for Road authorization as using other engine it is already necessary to got that verification. That means i need papers from manufactores who said i can use exactly that engine with the listed specifications ( for example 6,5 GEP Turbo) in that old truck maybe by changing subsystems usually breaksystem - what i already not expecting. Needed to do on our volvo 945 as 16V engine only with ABS and the 945GL = Ganz leer german slang translation => Complete empty meaning out of any accessories or special equipment. So we needed also the breaksystem from the 16V and some other parts. So we changed in the past not only the engine. I got a long list from volvo which i had to change from Car A to Car B and for this the wanted both VIN. At the time, that was a case-by-case decision and the document cost accordingly.
With such a paper from manufactor is it not a problem, without very expensive as the car has to going under several test, maybe you have comparable tests and studies, otherwise usually unaffordable for private users. The NA ist specified as exchange Engine with original IP DB2, there should it be no problem on it.

For example i can be sure that using the 6,5 Turbo will prevent the history approval in germany. Or was on any time used in the M1008 ever a turbo engine?

 

[Rutjes]

Next question going the stanadyne DB2 under overhaul or give him the DS4 - if using DS4 what need it more changing.... are there other options?

DS4 is computer controlled. This will not work in our trucks. A lot of newer truck owners (GMT400) actually go back to the DB2 and eliminate the computer. There are a lot of different DB2 pumps. The DB2831-4911 is considered to be the best by a lot of people if you are going to use a turbo.

I have also contact technical office for Road authorization as using other engine it is already necessary to got that verification. That means i need papers from manufactores who said i can use exactly that engine with the listed specifications ( for example 6,5 GEP Turbo) in that old truck maybe by changing subsystems usually breaksystem - what i already not expecting.

It really sounds tough to change anything on your truck over in Germany. The brakes on our trucks are the best available at that time. They are actually bigger and better then what is on my K1500 6.5 TD from what I can tell. Like I mentioned in my last private message, can't you have it tested by the KBA? I know over here you can. They'll drive it around on a test track and put it through several tests like accelerating and braking.

Maybe you should just drop in a GEP 6500 without a turbo and just run it. Don't tell anyone...

 

[PHOENIX-GER]

DS4 is computer controlled. This will not work in our trucks. A lot of newer truck owners (GMT400) actually go back to the DB2 and eliminate the computer. There are a lot of different DB2 pumps. The DB2831-4911 is considered to be the best by a lot of people if you are going to use a turbo.



It really sounds tough to change anything on your truck over in Germany. The brakes on our trucks are the best available at that time. They are actually bigger and better then what is on my K1500 6.5 TD from what I can tell. Like I mentioned in my last private message, can't you have it tested by the KBA? I know over here you can. They'll drive it around on a test track and put it through several tests like accelerating and braking.

Maybe you should just drop in a GEP 6500 without a turbo and just run it. Don't tell anyone...

I will take a look on our pump



Changing is not really tough if you do it on the correct way.
We take a lot of bad Trucks and cars from the road with technical defects and it make sense to control this.
Specially about our hobbiest tuning scene here.
With a mercedes or audi/vw no problem in germany as most technical details well knowed by the officers but us-cars.....
A lot of people do much for bad reputation of us-cars and trucks in germany.
Of course break test always include any road approaval examination, but here the ABE Allgemeine Betriebserlaubnis
general operating permit for roadtraffic goes out by changing any relevant technical part on your vehicle. So that mean changing engine = new approval
I don`t expect any problam on NA but for the turbo maybe i can pass just by a breaktesting on a test bench, it is much easier with a paper from manufactors that this is ok. They dont look only on breaks also on powersteering, undercarriage reinforcement, Suspension .... nothing what need to be feared of a M1008. But the law is for all vehicles, that someone stupid don`t take a V8 in a VW beetle out of adjusting original condition ..... If i havn`t a paper from manufactor will it be difficult not impossible. I could bring informations about technic from other 6,5TD Trucks like your 1500 for example to compare on the M1008.
To make such a big story on changes is not out of a sense but sometimes it is on the other hand also bean counting.

For example the rollbar and the ramprotection was checking on material and mounting. I got papers about material composition as well about the certification of welding (myself, as i have this certification). No problems i was out in a few minutes.
The question how much weight was just estimated.... as in the papers changing the empty weight of truck and also the measurement of hight, wide, length.... this was exactly measured but lastly not the weight. he had could sent me to a calibrated scales but has renounced the effort because it is only of little relevance. That is when you got an officer who got a to view a professional installed part. For the engine the same. If i go there with a truck what is dirt, not professional installed parts.,... you can be sure to failed your examination. I think that is everywhere the same.

 

[PHOENIX-GER]

I got reply from our Vehicle History Approval - I want going this way, so see under this list - non Turbo Engine is required and at least the engine must also 30 years old: or it is the same design form same manufactors of that time:

Conversions and additions to classic cars are only possible to a very limited extent. In principle, conversions may only be carried out that were also possible in the first ten years after the classic was first registered. And the converted or modified vehicles must comply with the current regulations of the StVZO (Road Traffic Licensing Regulations).

Body: The body must correspond to the original condition. Conversions from a coupé to a convertible, for example, are only allowed if this version has been officially offered by the manufacturer and does not weaken the body structure. Normally, this must be approved by the manufacturer. The attachment of plastic parts is only possible if they do not differ from the original.

Color: The vehicle must have a contemporary paint job. Effect and multi-color paintwork are only accepted if these were offered by the manufacturer.

Chassis: Changes to the chassis are only possible if these were already offered at the time of manufacture.

Engine: Only engines from the series of the type used may be installed. If another engine from the same manufacturer is used, it must be at least 30 years old. If a catalytic converter is to be retrofitted, a corresponding parts certificate or a general operating permit (ABE) must be available.

Braking: A conversion from a single-circuit to a dual-circuit brake system is possible. A conversion from drum to disc brakes is only possible if this later appeared as standard on the same vehicle type.

Steering: Sports steering wheels may only be installed if they were offered by the manufacturer or if they date from the time of manufacture and have a valid test certificate.

Tires: Conversions to radial tires are possible, provided they were approved at the time.

Exhaust system: Only modifications with contemporary accessories are allowed. Replicas are possible if the exhaust gas and noise behavior does not deteriorate.

Electrics and lighting: Additional lighting can be installed after consultation with the experts. The lighting must comply with
Road Traffic Licensing Regulations (StZVO of Germany) (and should largely correspond to the original condition). The installation of a newer radio is possible under certain conditions.

 

[Mullaney]

I got reply from our Vehicle History Approval - I want going this way, so see under this list - non Turbo Engine is required and at least the engine must also 30 years old: or it is the same design form same manufactors of that time:

Conversions and additions to classic cars are only possible to a very limited extent. In principle, conversions may only be carried out that were also possible in the first ten years after the classic was first registered. And the converted or modified vehicles must comply with the current regulations of the StVZO (Road Traffic Licensing Regulations).

Body: The body must correspond to the original condition. Conversions from a coupé to a convertible, for example, are only allowed if this version has been officially offered by the manufacturer and does not weaken the body structure. Normally, this must be approved by the manufacturer. The attachment of plastic parts is only possible if they do not differ from the original.

Color: The vehicle must have a contemporary paint job. Effect and multi-color paintwork are only accepted if these were offered by the manufacturer.

Chassis: Changes to the chassis are only possible if these were already offered at the time of manufacture.

Engine: Only engines from the series of the type used may be installed. If another engine from the same manufacturer is used, it must be at least 30 years old. If a catalytic converter is to be retrofitted, a corresponding parts certificate or a general operating permit (ABE) must be available.

Braking: A conversion from a single-circuit to a dual-circuit brake system is possible. A conversion from drum to disc brakes is only possible if this later appeared as standard on the same vehicle type.

Steering: Sports steering wheels may only be installed if they were offered by the manufacturer or if they date from the time of manufacture and have a valid test certificate.

Tires: Conversions to radial tires are possible, provided they were approved at the time.

Exhaust system: Only modifications with contemporary accessories are allowed. Replicas are possible if the exhaust gas and noise behavior does not deteriorate.

Electrics and lighting: Additional lighting can be installed after consultation with the experts. The lighting must comply with
Road Traffic Licensing Regulations (StZVO of Germany) (and should largely correspond to the original condition). The installation of a newer radio is possible under certain conditions.

.
Wow!

Seems that Germany has the "hot rod" industry clamped down pretty tightly. Here in the States, if a motor fits between the frame rails it can be bolted in and driven down the highway. I guess that works if the consent of the governed is accepted...

OR maybe some things aren't worth lowering the lance against.

 

[PHOENIX-GER]

.
Wow!

Seems that Germany has the "hot rod" industry clamped down pretty tightly. Here in the States, if a motor fits between the frame rails it can be bolted in and driven down the highway. I guess that works if the consent of the governed is accepted...

OR maybe some things aren't worth lowering the lance against.

Don't missunderstand. This not general road traffic licensing regulation. You can do tuning and other changes on your car by control of technical approval but this above is just only if you want the status as historical vehical. This means original condition or tuning what was at that time regular. This status can get only vehicles older than 30 years = oldtimer.

 

[PHOENIX-GER]

Here in the States, if a motor fits between the frame rails it can be bolted in and driven down the highway.

We have no general Speed Limit on our highways.... nevertheless a lot of sequences are regulated on 130 km/h
But where it is not regulated you can take speedlimit of your car....
If your tuning was bad and the technic failures, will this be a risk of other persons around. So our regulation is - no change on any technical part of vehicles out of ABE or technical approval include no insurance if you are tuning beside this law.
That mean not we have only safe cars on the road. There are a lot of which don`t care of that.
High fines, vehicle confiscation and even imprisonment, the consequences depend on whether there was damage to property / personal injury or a repeat offense

 

[Mullaney]

We have no general Speed Limit on our highways.... nevertheless a lot of sequences are regulated on 130 km/h
But where it is not regulated you can take speedlimit of your car....
If your tuning was bad and the technic failures, will this be a risk of other persons around. So our regulation is - no change on any technical part of vehicles out of ABE or technical approval include no insurance if you are tuning beside this law.
That mean not we have only safe cars on the road. There are a lot of which don`t care of that.
High fines, vehicle confiscation and even imprisonment, the consequences depend on whether there was damage to property / personal injury or a repeat offense

.
Seems that in our country, there is no regulations on stupidity.

Unlimited speed here on the highways would weed out a lot of ignorant people.
The problem would be the innocent or the "nit wits" that ride in the fast lane at fifty miles an hour.
Culture and History tell us a lot...

 

[PHOENIX-GER]

.
Seems that in our country, there is no regulations on stupidity.

Unlimited speed here on the highways would weed out a lot of ignorant people.
The problem would be the innocent or the "nit wits" that ride in the fast lane at fifty miles an hour.
Culture and History tell us a lot...

there is nothing here where is not a law on it. You need to be a lawyer to understand all:
For this we have a right-hand drive on multi-lane routes. But there are always sneaks or senior teachers who seem to be unfamiliar with this. An adapted driving style is always a subjective thing ...
Of course, there is also a penalty here for non-compliance. Civilian police vehicles are usually used for this.
Many accidents are caused by reckless driving or from drivers which dont master their car.

 

[PHOENIX-GER]

I use the time while looking for a replacement engine to continue working on the body. As a rule, rust flowers are pretty and small, but usually turn out to be full-blown craters ... I've always wanted to be an art fitter........





It could also be "flowery" under the windshield seal. It has to go out for welding and painting anyway.

My son gave me his electrical wish list today. He will make sure that the electrical system is properly laid again.
When I look at his accessory case, we did everything right in terms of education



current status:

 

[PHOENIX-GER]

My son secured the engine wiring harness today. It will be provided with a new cable duct and the complete additional cabling for the 24V lightbar on the rollbar will also be rewired. Just like the air horns, the additional instruments and the trailer hitch.
Windscreen come out out of problems after 20 years in the seal, no rust.







Does anybody know where i can got such a sticker?



There were also losses such as the hood opening cable, throttle cable, door hinge bolts (are already bought and wasn`t installed yet), Holdingpin for the wiring. washer pump. As we are still on that point we checked next week also the heat exchanger. Had a leak in that exchanger in my old volvo, so better now checking as later found a leak there.

 

[PHOENIX-GER]

we are getting closer and closer to the frame

the bumper had lost after 1.5 hours... 25 years not taken off. It was hard work but with force it could have been destroyed



the truckbed was loosen out of any lost - since 1996 not taken off, maybe first time ever that it was taken off

 

[PHOENIX-GER]

The frame painting and rustprotection will not be a problem, but it seems to figure out the right color for the body will be difficult....
So much different versions existing.
I went through the paint threads and got all the info there looking for the right color. Unfortunately, of course, I can not get a direct import of a color from the USA. But we also have the possibility to get military paints here in Germany.
There are actually only two places where I can say it is the original color - behind the dashboard and behind attachments in the engine compartment on the bulkhead.





original it was single colored not camouflaged





of this pictures it is just guessing of the right color....

The Service Part Identification Label said:
7ZY1 Single Color
7Y5S Army Veh Ident Marki



I guess it is the usual Green 383.............34094
Can anybody verify this Color of the Code on the Label?

This and also some others are available in Germany

U.S. Army

Beachten Sie bitte dass es technisch nicht möglich ist Farbtöne auf einem Computermonitor farbecht darzustellen. Aus diesem Grund sind die in…

www.militaerlacke.de

 

[Mullaney]

The frame painting and rustprotection will not be a problem, but it seems to figure out the right color for the body will be difficult....
So much different versions existing.
I went through the paint threads and got all the info there looking for the right color. Unfortunately, of course, I can not get a direct import of a color from the USA. But we also have the possibility to get military paints here in Germany.
There are actually only two places where I can say it is the original color - behind the dashboard and behind attachments in the engine compartment on the bulkhead.

View attachment 851972

View attachment 851973

original it was single colored not camouflaged

View attachment 851974

View attachment 851975

of this pictures it is just guessing of the right color....

The Service Part Identification Label said:
7ZY1 Single Color
7Y5S Army Veh Ident Marki

View attachment 851976

I guess it is the usual Green 383.............34094
Can anybody verify this Color of the Code on the Label?

This and also some others are available in Germany

U.S. Army

Beachten Sie bitte dass es technisch nicht möglich ist Farbtöne auf einem Computermonitor farbecht darzustellen. Aus diesem Grund sind die in…

www.militaerlacke.de

.
Sure looks like 383 Green as a really good guess to me. Maybe somebody else here can interpret the GM Color from that number. If you happen to have a Glidden paint available in Germany - we might be able so get the label off a can for you.

Their sign says "Cover The World" but I don't know that they are a world wide company...

 

[PHOENIX-GER]

Found this https://www.archiexpo.de/prod/glidden-88916.html seems to be right one but i don`t found anything on the website to the military paints
I had just a phone call to militaerlacke.de - they offer the original color but it is not the same like army use, as the said it is forbidden about "Kriegswaffenkontrollgesetz / War Weapons Control Act" to use original armypaint which have special additives ok just the right color will be enough for us. I do not intend to go to war

 

[PHOENIX-GER]

The truck always has new surprises in store... after cleaning the manifolds I found this defect.






I am also getting new manifolds with my new engine but for the Humvee - because it is a complete package remanufactured GEP6500 NA include subsystems prepared for Humvee.
As the manifolds not fitting of humvee i have to check about that damage - seems to be superficial acquired in the manufacturing process and now about usage and age/rust etc. visible after sandblasting.

 

[PHOENIX-GER]

My wife is happy that i am a metalworker....
Remembring Beach Boys



it is not of an accident

 

[PHOENIX-GER]

it make a big difference if you have access on machine cleaning and sand/glassperlsblasting

after going through maschine washing





after blasting



and a care and wellness package for the NP208



Christmas holiday time relaxing und resting will be a busy time for us ....