Recommendations - FLU419 review for purchase ?

[MaybeA419]

Hi guys - I'm looking at 419 and would appreciate any guidance on going over it. I have decades of car knowledge, but zero heavy equipment diesel knowledge.

I've been studying the manuals for some time, which I believe gives me a good foundation to work from. Am I correct that the primarily areas of concern would be engine, tranny and hydraulics?

The mileage and hours are low with a rebuild in late 2000's. I've already done a pre-review (non running). Almost all hoses appear in good condition and didn't see any undercarriage / suspension damage or excessive wear. I didn't see any signs of cylinder seal leaks, but that may change on when I do a 'running' review as is true of many other areas.

On a more general topic, how accessible are parts? I'm building a vendor list, but it sure seems like most parts are available outside the U.S.

Again, any guidance greatly appreciated. This would be a working rig for property maintenance.
Thanks!!!

 

[Speedwoble]

Expedition Imports has invested heavily in parts and should be your go-to for FLU specific parts. The FLU frame, transmission, hydraulic system are similar but different than the common 406 parts, so some overseas parts may not work for you or may require modification.
The backhoe is similar to a Case 580E and Case still has a lot of parts available.
The military manuals are free and have both the manufacturer part numbers and the NSN’s. CASE part numbers begin with a letter then 5-6 numbers. Mercedes numbers are generally 9? Numbers. If the part number starts with 406, my money is on the part from a 406 working. If the part number starts with a 419, guess.

A lot of parts have been surplused out by the military, so searching for the NSN will often yield a part.

Pro-tip: Only buy from places with a photo of the part. There are a lot of websites claiming they’re can get you NSN’s for a quote. They are a waste of time.

 

[MaybeA419]

Expedition Imports has invested heavily in parts and should be your go-to for FLU specific parts. The FLU frame, transmission, hydraulic system are similar but different than the common 406 parts, so some overseas parts may not work for you or may require modification.
The backhoe is similar to a Case 580E and Case still has a lot of parts available.
The military manuals are free and have both the manufacturer part numbers and the NSN’s. CASE part numbers begin with a letter then 5-6 numbers. Mercedes numbers are generally 9? Numbers. If the part number starts with 406, my money is on the part from a 406 working. If the part number starts with a 419, guess.

A lot of parts have been surplused out by the military, so searching for the NSN will often yield a part.

Pro-tip: Only buy from places with a photo of the part. There are a lot of websites claiming they’re can get you NSN’s for a quote. They are a waste of time.

I have Expedition Imports at the top of (limited) list .

From what I've read the back hoe being a Case 580 (as you noted) should be fairly easy for parts (although guessing a bit).

My main concern are Unimog parts in general (406, etc), or (again as you noted) the 419 specific parts. For example (I'm betting) the hydraulic system is pretty specific to the 419?

Thanks for the info on part numbers. I've been struggling a bit (actually a lot) with understanding these ..

I've accepted that if jump into a 419, I am doing all the wrenching, fabrications, etc. But I'm trying to limit how overwhelming this could be and have a good understanding of exactly what I'm jumping into.

Thanks again!!!

 

[glcaines]

You mentioned that you did a pre-review non-running. Does this mean the SEE doesn't run, or that you were not permitted to start it? I would highly recommend that you don't make a purchase unless you can start and drive it and deploy the backhoe and make sure the loader works. Make certain that everything works first. The drivetrain is somewhat complicated. Drive it and make sure all gears work, axles will lock, etc. If something is deficient that doesn't mean you shouldn't buy the SEE, it just means the price needs to be at a correct level. I love my SEE, more than I thought I would.

 

[MaybeA419]

You mentioned that you did a pre-review non-running. Does this mean the SEE doesn't run, or that you were not permitted to start it? I would highly recommend that you don't make a purchase unless you can start and drive it and deploy the backhoe and make sure the loader works. Make certain that everything works first. The drivetrain is somewhat complicated. Drive it and make sure all gears work, axles will lock, etc. If something is deficient that doesn't mean you shouldn't buy the SEE, it just means the price needs to be at a correct level. I love my SEE, more than I thought I would.

I'm sorry, I should have been more specific. By non-running I just meant I didn't have access to start it, etc. Absolutely will go over all components once the owner is there with key, etc.

So how long have you had your SEE, have you had an major issues, have you found getting parts to be an issue?

Thanks for your thoughts

 

[glcaines]

I purchased my SEE in June this year. I've had no issues getting parts, but a few had to be ordered.
1. I had to replace the crossover air line with a stainless version because it was corroded closed and therefore no power brakes. I used 316 10mm SS. Pneumatic system and brakes work fine now.
2. I had to replace one piece of throttle linkage that was bent. EI had it in stock. I also had to lubricate the throttle linkage to free it up.
3. I had to replace a couple of special fittings for the airline and EI had them in stock.
4. I replaced the unloader / pressure regulator with a new one from Ebay which was very inexpensive and easy to replace.
5. The alcohol injector for the pneumatic system was packed full of sand. I had to remove it and thoroughly clean it. I replaced the short length of tubing from the alcohol reservoir to the injector and filled the reservoir with 90% isopropyl alcohol.
6. The windshield wipers were toast and I replaced the blades. I used new blades from NAPA, P/N 6-018-1. They were identical with the originals.
7. My SEE had a fresh oil change. The oil wasn't even colored black yet.
8. I checked all fluids and everything was already topped off and tags were attached showing recent fluid changes from the Army.

I haven't put much money into the SEE since I got it, mostly labor from cleaning. It drives and operates very well now. I don't drive it faster than 30 or 35 on the highway and I'm very careful on off-road slopes. I'm amazed at how the transmission shifts so smoothly.

Good luck.

 

[MaybeA419]

I purchased my SEE in June this year. I've had no issues getting parts, but a few had to be ordered.
1. I had to replace the crossover air line with a stainless version because it was corroded closed and therefore no power brakes. I used 316 10mm SS. Pneumatic system and brakes work fine now.
2. I had to replace one piece of throttle linkage that was bent. EI had it in stock. I also had to lubricate the throttle linkage to free it up.
3. I had to replace a couple of special fittings for the airline and EI had them in stock.
4. I replaced the unloader / pressure regulator with a new one from Ebay which was very inexpensive and easy to replace.
5. The alcohol injector for the pneumatic system was packed full of sand. I had to remove it and thoroughly clean it. I replaced the short length of tubing from the alcohol reservoir to the injector and filled the reservoir with 90% isopropyl alcohol.
6. The windshield wipers were toast and I replaced the blades. I used new blades from NAPA, P/N 6-018-1. They were identical with the originals.
7. My SEE had a fresh oil change. The oil wasn't even colored black yet.
8. I checked all fluids and everything was already topped off and tags were attached showing recent fluid changes from the Army.

I haven't put much money into the SEE since I got it, mostly labor from cleaning. It drives and operates very well now. I don't drive it faster than 30 or 35 on the highway and I'm very careful on off-road slopes. I'm amazed at how the transmission shifts so smoothly.

Good luck.

Gary - Thanks for sharing your experiences to date. I am getting more comfortable with getting parts. I pulled a few random NSN numbers and (to my suprise) in most cases the parts appeared to be available .

 

[peakbagger]

My multiple cents

Air system is my number one. The majority of the SEE is air assisted and the fording system pressurizes the front and rear end axles. The differential locks are air powered. Plan on taking it apart and cleaning all the crap in the system. Plan on replacing the cross body air line. The brake booster is quite expensive.

Spares are definitely an issue. The underlying 406 components should be available out of Europe for quite a few years. The SEE specific parts that were upfitted in the US are definitely going to be a problem. EI bought out the inventory of what was left of the national stock and the various stocks at bases seems to have been sold in various small auction lots when they get in the way. Lots of small entrepreneurs bought them for cheap at auctions and know how to look up the values of new stock and sell it when they can over Ebay. As mentioned case will support the backhoe. The FEL is a Schmidt and they will stock parts mostly in Europe although they do have a US division.

The challenge I am seeing is the air system parts are mostly Wabco and Bosch. When I have tried to order parts on occasion using the various part numbers on the actual components and the NSN and mercedes numbers I come up with no stock and EI cannot help. They should be your first resource but its hit or miss. My guess is somewhere someone can probably find comparible parts in the Wabco Meritor system but we are going to be on our own as the years go on. Its just going to require research to find alternatives.

Minor things like front steering components seem to be no longer available, tie rods boots seem to fail on most SEEs and they appear to be no longer available. When they go we will need to buy the entire steel rod with ends. I think they are available in Europe and most likely that is where we will need to get them.

 

[MaybeA419]

My multiple cents

Air system is my number one. The majority of the SEE is air assisted and the fording system pressurizes the front and rear end axles. The differential locks are air powered. Plan on taking it apart and cleaning all the crap in the system. Plan on replacing the cross body air line. The brake booster is quite expensive.

Spares are definitely an issue. The underlying 406 components should be available out of Europe for quite a few years. The SEE specific parts that were upfitted in the US are definitely going to be a problem. EI bought out the inventory of what was left of the national stock and the various stocks at bases seems to have been sold in various small auction lots when they get in the way. Lots of small entrepreneurs bought them for cheap at auctions and know how to look up the values of new stock and sell it when they can over Ebay. As mentioned case will support the backhoe. The FEL is a Schmidt and they will stock parts mostly in Europe although they do have a US division.

The challenge I am seeing is the air system parts are mostly Wabco and Bosch. When I have tried to order parts on occasion using the various part numbers on the actual components and the NSN and mercedes numbers I come up with no stock and EI cannot help. They should be your first resource but its hit or miss. My guess is somewhere someone can probably find comparible parts in the Wabco Meritor system but we are going to be on our own as the years go on. Its just going to require research to find alternatives.

Minor things like front steering components seem to be no longer available, tie rods boots seem to fail on most SEEs and they appear to be no longer available. When they go we will need to buy the entire steel rod with ends. I think they are available in Europe and most likely that is where we will need to get them.

Thank you very much for this (critical) information. I had no idea the air system was so expansive! I thought it was pretty much solely brakes.

I'm working through a crash course on the various air circuits (initial charge, stage I / II brake boost) and the accessories circuits (4WD,diff lock, high idle and trailer). When you advise cleaning diff locks, is this limited to air supply lines, or does this go deeper?

Based on your recommendation, I checked the cross body air line. I'm assuming/betting the OE line was metal? It appears it's been replaced with a rubber hose (which seems very weird to me). Do you know if air/hydraulic lines (in general) are still readily available?

Thanks again for your thoughts and providing your expertise.

 

[Speedwoble]

Thank you very much for this (critical) information. I had no idea the air system was so expansive! I thought it was pretty much solely brakes.

I'm working through a crash course on the various air circuits (initial charge, stage I / II brake boost) and the accessories circuits (4WD,diff lock, high idle and trailer). When you advise cleaning diff locks, is this limited to air supply lines, or does this go deeper?

Based on your recommendation, I checked the cross body air line. I'm assuming/betting the OE line was metal? It appears it's been replaced with a rubber hose (which seems very weird to me). Do you know if air/hydraulic lines (in general) are still readily available?

Thanks again for your thoughts and providing your expertise.

I sell a premade Stainless steel cross air line for $150shipped. I got them custom made by a local supplier. I have 3 left and do not plan on making more.

 

[peakbagger]

One of the members on the forum is making new stainless steel cross body air lines with the correct fittings. I am not shilling for him. I actually chased down the correct fittings and put in copper nickel tubing. The line rots from the inside out, looks like clogged artery when cut off. This is covered in one of these many "cartoons" (15) FLU 419 SEE and HMMH Extracts from PS Magazine Maintenance and Operating tips | SteelSoldiers Someone else collected them, I just indexed them to make them a bit easier to find.

This link to the student handbook for the SEE will speed up your education on many of the systems, a lot easier than trying to find it in the technical manuals that I swear where sold by the pound to the government

(14) See, small emplacement excavator; flu-419 manuals and a student handout | SteelSoldiers

There is better wiring diagram stored in the Misc Tech Manuals forum, but I cant seem to locate it

 

[MaybeA419]

One of the members on the forum is making new stainless steel cross body air lines with the correct fittings. I am not shilling for him. I actually chased down the correct fittings and put in copper nickel tubing. The line rots from the inside out, looks like clogged artery when cut off. This is covered in one of these many "cartoons" (15) FLU 419 SEE and HMMH Extracts from PS Magazine Maintenance and Operating tips | SteelSoldiers Someone else collected them, I just indexed them to make them a bit easier to find.

This link to the student handbook for the SEE will speed up your education on many of the systems, a lot easier than trying to find it in the technical manuals that I swear where sold by the pound to the government

(14) See, small emplacement excavator; flu-419 manuals and a student handout | SteelSoldiers

There is better wiring diagram stored in the Misc Tech Manuals forum, but I cant seem to locate it

Again thanks! You also answered a question I was os

I sell a premade Stainless steel cross air line for $150shipped. I got them custom made by a local supplier. I have 3 left and do not plan on making more.

Thanks for jumping in . I know now there is a quick fix should I purchase this rig ..

 

[MaybeA419]

One of the members on the forum is making new stainless steel cross body air lines with the correct fittings. I am not shilling for him. I actually chased down the correct fittings and put in copper nickel tubing. The line rots from the inside out, looks like clogged artery when cut off. This is covered in one of these many "cartoons" (15) FLU 419 SEE and HMMH Extracts from PS Magazine Maintenance and Operating tips | SteelSoldiers Someone else collected them, I just indexed them to make them a bit easier to find.

This link to the student handbook for the SEE will speed up your education on many of the systems, a lot easier than trying to find it in the technical manuals that I swear where sold by the pound to the government

(14) See, small emplacement excavator; flu-419 manuals and a student handout | SteelSoldiers

There is better wiring diagram stored in the Misc Tech Manuals forum, but I cant seem to locate it

Thanks again, you answered another question I researching which is can I make the line(s) myself with copper/nickel ? I've made brake lines for cars before with double flares, etc, but I noticed these lines are much bigger diameter and may be much hard to fabricate.. Plus knowing there is a quick purchase option translates to being able to take this issue off the list of things I've found.

 

[glcaines]

The crossover airline is 10mm ID. It is mild steel and corrodes easily. I purchased a 6 foot length of 10 mm ID 316 stainless steel tubing from Zoro. It is very difficult to bend so I also purchased a Ridgid tubing bender for 10 mm tubing with long arms and a Ridgid reamer for stainless steel tubing. I purchased 10mm tubing nuts and ferrules from EI. All in all the whole project was more expensive than I would have liked. However, it is a permanent fix and looks good. If I had it to do over again, I would go with Speedwoble and his stainless steel line.

 

[peakbagger]

I have had some issues with copper nickel tubing in this application. It holds but I have had slight air leaks at the fittings. The original steel lines are harder than copper nickel and my guess is that the Parker AN(?) ( I long ago started a thread on the proper fitting) fittings swedging action does not bite into the tubing as well as it would stainless. Its a guess but when I parked mine for the winter I could hear the tell tale hiss from the fitting.

My vote is for supporting a fellow member. His is a lot neater.

BTW I just redid a Broncos brake lines with double flared copper nickel and they seem to hold fine. I am curious if its just the euro fittings I used on the SEE?

 

[glcaines]

The fittings I used with my 316 SS tubing came from EI. They were packaged in a Mercedes parts bag. I have zero leaks after checking with soapy water.

 

[The FLU farm]

I'm sorry, I should have been more specific. By non-running I just meant I didn't have access to start it, etc. Absolutely will go over all components once the owner is there with key, etc.

Especially if it hasn't been used for a while, be sure to clean off the rods on all hydraulic cylinders before trying to operate the loader or backhoe.
I liked buying the ones listed as non-runners as the seals were still intact, and it was usually easy to get them started.

Also, it sounds like you haven't read the "Owners" thread yet. If it can go wrong, or be repaired, I think everything has been brought up there.
And at least once.

 

[MaybeA419]

The crossover airline is 10mm ID. It is mild steel and corrodes easily. I purchased a 6 foot length of 10 mm ID 316 stainless steel tubing from Zoro. It is very difficult to bend so I also purchased a Ridgid tubing bender for 10 mm tubing with long arms and a Ridgid reamer for stainless steel tubing. I purchased 10mm tubing nuts and ferrules from EI. All in all the whole project was more expensive than I would have liked. However, it is a permanent fix and looks good. If I had it to do over again, I would go with Speedwoble and his stainless steel line.

Thanks for the info. I was guessing with one quick look they were around 12-13 OD. I figured bending would be tough or possibly impossible without a bender. Have you had any issues with any other air lines?

 

[MaybeA419]

I have had some issues with copper nickel tubing in this application. It holds but I have had slight air leaks at the fittings. The original steel lines are harder than copper nickel and my guess is that the Parker AN(?) ( I long ago started a thread on the proper fitting) fittings swedging action does not bite into the tubing as well as it would stainless. Its a guess but when I parked mine for the winter I could hear the tell tale hiss from the fitting.

My vote is for supporting a fellow member. His is a lot neater.

BTW I just redid a Broncos brake lines with double flared copper nickel and they seem to hold fine. I am curious if its just the euro fittings I used on the SEE?

OK, excellent to know . I was wondering if copper nickel might be too soft, but figured it had a fair shot a working. Is the cross over tube (typically) the only section that is problematic?

 

[MaybeA419]

The fittings I used with my 316 SS tubing came from EI. They were packaged in a Mercedes parts bag. I have zero leaks after checking with soapy water.

Thanks for jumping in and providing another option . It sounds like this section rots out very often.