CA register a Humvee Street Legal in California

[BAJATMMBC]

Hi, Everyone, does anyone how to register a 1999 m1097A2 in California for Street legal use ?
Thank you in advance for the help.

 

[98G]

My understanding is CA is a flat "NO!".

@Retiredwarhorses may have something to add.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

My understanding is CA is a flat "NO!".

@Retiredwarhorses may have something to add.

this is correct, it’s a NO GO since November 2017

 

[KN6KXR]

It's bad. So bad I have to get permission from the state DMV before CHP will inspect my 1986 M936A2. I want historic plates. It has historic plates in Michigan mhere I bought it. They don't care. Insist it's commercial. So I'm writing a letter to the DMV in Sacramento.....

Here's what they are referencing: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/uploads/2020/06/VIN-2017-26-Government-Surplus-Vehicles.pdf

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

It's bad. So bad I have to get permission from the state DMV before CHP will inspect my 1986 M936A2. I want historic plates. It has historic plates in Michigan mhere I bought it. They don't care. Insist it's commercial. So I'm writing a letter to the DMV in Sacramento.....

Here's what they are referencing: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/uploads/2020/06/VIN-2017-26-Government-Surplus-Vehicles.pdf

good luck…they don’t care, it’s not just this, but you are fighting CARB…a complete Nazi organizatio.
I tried for a year with a state representative to just talk with a low level aid at DMV In Sacramento.

 

[KN6KXR]

You can appeal this stuff. Maybe you have a chance for older, out of current use and mint condition MV's for historic plates (like my wrecker). They haven't given a good reason to deny you historic if it meets all the requirements. If you have a HMMWV you are screwed. The problem with historic is the remote VIN verifiers won't touch it. So then you have to go to DMV and they think it's a HMMWV and round you go. At the end of the day all the historic stuff winds up in Sacramento anyway for review. It's getting past the DMV field offices that's the time suck.

As for CARB, which applies to commercial but not historic, you're limited to 1968 and earlier due to no federal emissions label. That's pretty much it.

Also the whacky 7,500 mile thing. They freaked at the miles on my wrecker. Tried to explain the reset and the RSMS they don't care (again). So I asked Boyce to ship me a new ODO, they said something about commie bastards in CA, sent me a used one with over 7,500 for free. Maybe I'll retire to Utah they seem nice out there.....

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

You can appeal this stuff. Maybe you have a chance for older, out of current use and mint condition MV's for historic plates (like my wrecker). They haven't given a good reason to deny you historic if it meets all the requirements. If you have a HMMWV you are screwed. The problem with historic is the remote VIN verifiers won't touch it. So then you have to go to DMV and they think it's a HMMWV and round you go. At the end of the day all the historic stuff winds up in Sacramento anyway for review. It's getting past the DMV field offices that's the time suck.

As for CARB, which applies to commercial but not historic, you're limited to 1968 and earlier due to no federal emissions label. That's pretty much it.

Also the whacky 7,500 mile thing. They freaked at the miles on my wrecker. Tried to explain the reset and the RSMS they don't care (again). So I asked Boyce to ship me a new ODO, they said something about commie bastards in CA, sent me a used one with over 7,500 for free. Maybe I'll retire to Utah they seem nice out there.....

Again, say what you want, I lived it and still do…I’ve spent hundreds of hours on the phone.
The folks at DMV and CARB DO NOT CARE ABOUT LAWS…PERIOD.
In the words of a CARB senior manager…”Calif does not and has never allowed ex-militray vehicle on the road”
that is a direct quote.
The other is “TC” Technical Compliance wanting me to get a smog on my 1986 6.5 Diesel engine….Calif law is clear, 1997 and below require NO SMOG….they don’t care.
My Congressman could give a rats ass either…

 

[windtrader]

Looking for any update on hurdles getting an ex military Humvee on the road legally in CA.

My research seems to indicate that before 2017 it was possible but the CA DMV stopped the practice in 2017.

Has anyone heard of getting a clean legal CA title and on-road registration since 2017?

Has anyone heard of DMV revoking or messing with one that did get legally titled and registered?

Any issues with tranfer of title when selling a legal one?

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

Looking for any update on hurdles getting an ex military Humvee on the road legally in CA.

My research seems to indicate that before 2017 it was possible but the CA DMV stopped the practice in 2017.

Has anyone heard of getting a clean legal CA title and on-road registration since 2017?

Has anyone heard of DMV revoking or messing with one that did get legally titled and registered?

Any issues with tranfer of title when selling a legal one?

A state that is dead seat on complete elimination of Diesel powered vehicles by 2040 and you think they will allow a 1980’s IDI diesel engine to be on road and exempt from smog laws?
When pigs fly

 

[KN6KXR]

Yes. You can.

Since I made the post above 15 months ago I have:
-Gotten historic plates for my "1986" BMY M936A2. It's actually a 1991 but whatever. Had a Michigan title when I got it. The DMV threw me out on the way I wrangled a referral to CHP. The CHP didn't want to sign it so I challenged the officer to sign that he refused to inspect. I indicated I needed written proof for my court case in the matter. And.... he signed it off! Here's the important part: don't go back to the DMV! I used a "registration service" who got the title to a non-op status, then applied for historical. Viola! Historical plates. Why historical? Weight fees. Would be like $1300 a year for a vehicle I can't even use commercially. The wrecker costs me $112 a year and $200 a year stated value insurance for $26k. Excellent.
-I had Boyce build me a bobbed M35A2. They picked me a 1966. Why is that important? Because the CA DMV Form REG31 exempts all vehicles 1968 and previous from FMVSS and smog. Had a clean Utah title (no plates), went in to DMV, walked out with commercial pickup plates that day.
-I recently got plates for two trailers with SF97's: an M105A2 and an M1102.

They definitely have it out for HMMWV's. That said see if you can insist you are going historical and need to get commercial to do so (this is how it works you cannot go straight historical and cannot go from off road to historical). BTW historical is "20 years or older and vehicle of historical interest" that is used "predominantly" for club activities, car shows, etc.. Insist it's your right to do so by the laws of the state (it is) and get your referral to CHP. Go get the CHP to sign it. They probably will if you get blowback do the same thing I did: express such a thing is in the law and you'll fight it in court. I think I said something like "You as an officer know what it's like to build a case. It's not enough for to say some CHP told me to go away. I need a signed paper saying you refused to inspect, the reason why and your name." He signed it off. Then DO NOT GO BACK TO DMV. I highly recommend Ken Leek of Peninsula Registration services located in Belmont. I did everything by email and snail mail BTW.

It can be done. It's in your right. Know the law, make them aware you know the law, make them aware you'll fight them in court. They will bend. 90% of folks stand down. Be the 10%. Don't let them get away with it. I love my trucks they are totally worth it.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

Yes. You can.

Since I made the post above 15 months ago I have:
-Gotten historic plates for my "1986" BMY M936A2. It's actually a 1991 but whatever. Had a Michigan title when I got it. The DMV threw me out on the way I wrangled a referral to CHP. The CHP didn't want to sign it so I challenged the officer to sign that he refused to inspect. I indicated I needed written proof for my court case in the matter. And.... he signed it off! Here's the important part: don't go back to the DMV! I used a "registration service" who got the title to a non-op status, then applied for historical. Viola! Historical plates. Why historical? Weight fees. Would be like $1300 a year for a vehicle I can't even use commercially. The wrecker costs me $112 a year and $200 a year stated value insurance for $26k. Excellent.
-I had Boyce build me a bobbed M35A2. They picked me a 1966. Why is that important? Because the CA DMV Form REG31 exempts all vehicles 1968 and previous from FMVSS and smog. Had a clean Utah title (no plates), went in to DMV, walked out with commercial pickup plates that day.
-I recently got plates for two trailers with SF97's: an M105A2 and an M1102.

They definitely have it out for HMMWV's. That said see if you can insist you are going historical and need to get commercial to do so (this is how it works you cannot go straight historical and cannot go from off road to historical). BTW historical is "20 years or older and vehicle of historical interest" that is used "predominantly" for club activities, car shows, etc.. Insist it's your right to do so by the laws of the state (it is) and get your referral to CHP. Go get the CHP to sign it. They probably will if you get blowback do the same thing I did: express such a thing is in the law and you'll fight it in court. I think I said something like "You as an officer know what it's like to build a case. It's not enough for to say some CHP told me to go away. I need a signed paper saying you refused to inspect, the reason why and your name." He signed it off. Then DO NOT GO BACK TO DMV. I highly recommend Ken Leek of Peninsula Registration services located in Belmont. I did everything by email and snail mail BTW.

It can be done. It's in your right. Know the law, make them aware you know the law, make them aware you'll fight them in court. They will bend. 90% of folks stand down. Be the 10%. Don't let them get away with it. I love my trucks they are totally worth it.

I’ve never had issues getting the series trucks you have gotten titled in Calif…long long before Hmmwv’s were out and available, all my Deuces and later model trucks had plates…Historical for reasons cited.
The issue is the hmmwv’…can it be done? Yes, can It be done easily? no…
The Calif titling issue has been beaten to death…
The CHP officer you had was just a fool, his job was to just “verify“ your VIN, He had no right to say he would not “verify“ the VIN, CHP does not make law, they enforce laws, there is NO LAW on FMV’s, it’s a policy of DMV’s, this all came out in my
inquiry to my state representative.
You also state, “don’t go to DMV” well….unfortunately you cannot go anywhere else when you have a “short vin” only DMV can override VIN’s less than 17 Digits. There are easier ways to get road plates than dealing with the BS pathetic state govt entities in calif.
oh….and if you don’t think DMV and CHP investigators aren’t part of these forums here and on FB? Your a fool…because I personally know one and he validated that theory for me, unfortunately many of these “investigators” take pride in it.

 

[windtrader]

There are easier ways to get road plates than dealing with the BS pathetic state govt entities in calif.
oh….and if you don’t think DMV and CHP investigators aren’t part of these forums here and on FB?

As a noobie, I did search but found the topic remains to me rather convoluted, conflicting, and unclear how to do this, I apologize for stumbling down an apparently well worn path but just not clear enough for me.

DISCLAIMER - ALL THE FOLLOWING IS HYPOTHETICAL AND ONLY FOR ENTERTAINMENT. THERE IS NO ATTEMPT TO VIOLATE, CIRCUMVENT, OR OTHERWISE ATTEMPT OR CONSIDER DOING ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT IS PRESCRIBED BY CALIFORNIA GOVERNMENT RULES AND REGULATIONS.

The first option is buying an already clear CA titled and registered M998., apparently on-road legal. It was done before the 2017 DMV edict. Has anyone heard of DMV retracted one that was done legally? Has DMV so far honored and grandfathered in existing titles and registrations?

The second option is to buy at auction and have a service do the title and registration in Montana. How has that worked out for CA owners?

The third is to apply for CA historic plates along with the use restrictions. Seems like getting the auction vehicle into historic status may be tough.

Anyway, thanks for the insights.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

As a noobie, I did search but found the topic remains to me rather convoluted, conflicting, and unclear how to do this, I apologize for stumbling down an apparently well worn path but just not clear enough for me.

DISCLAIMER - ALL THE FOLLOWING IS HYPOTHETICAL AND ONLY FOR ENTERTAINMENT. THERE IS NO ATTEMPT TO VIOLATE, CIRCUMVENT, OR OTHERWISE ATTEMPT OR CONSIDER DOING ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT IS PRESCRIBED BY CALIFORNIA GOVERNMENT RULES AND REGULATIONS.

The first option is buying an already clear CA titled and registered M998., apparently on-road legal. It was done before the 2017 DMV edict. Has anyone heard of DMV retracted one that was done legally? Has DMV so far honored and grandfathered in existing titles and registrations?

The second option is to buy at auction and have a service do the title and registration in Montana. How has that worked out for CA owners?

The third is to apply for CA historic plates along with the use restrictions. Seems like getting the auction vehicle into historic status may be tough.

Anyway, thanks for the insights.

Historical plates are done only “after“ a title for road use is issued…one of the remedies I proposed to DMV via my state representative was to issue historical plates only, DMV wanted nothing to do with it, in fact…they just kept referring us to CARB, Calif Air Resources Board.
ultimatley, what has to be done being DMV refuses to modify its policy is to get a Law passed, thats what most states have done…just look at Oregon for example.

 

[MyothersanM1]

I used a "registration service" who got the title to a non-op status, then applied for historical. Viola! Historical plates. Why historical? Weight fees. Would be like $1300 a year for a vehicle I can't even use commercially.

Exactly how my M818 title and registration was completed back in '09. Unfortunately, the lady who owned the service I used retired and closed the business.
By the by...I had the truck VIN verified (REG 31) at the AAA office in Inglewood, CA back then. Easy peasy! I don't know if they are still allowed to do complete that. Although, the current REG 31 on dmv.ca.gov indicates an authorized auto club employee may complete it.

…they just kept referring us to CARB, Calif Air Resources Board.

Historic plated diesel-powered vehicles have an exemption carve out in the over-bearing CARB regulation.

California Code of Regulations, Title 13, Division 3, Chapter 1, Article 4.5, sections 2025(c)(9) & 2025(d)(36)
See attached...

 

[KN6KXR]

So just to be clear: nobody is breaking any laws. Except the state. They are breaking their own rules. The CARB referrals when going non-op aren't legal, the refusal to perform a VIN inspection isn't legal, I've been refused due to the odometer having under 7500 miles (not legal it's 2 years OR 7500 miles), refusing to acknowledge an out of state title isn't legal (state reciprocity agreement), etc, etc...

The most concrete evidence/guidance I've been given around this issue is the Vehicle Industry News (VIN) 2017-26 titled "Government Surplus Vehicles". Keep in mind this is a MEMO and is offered as GUIDANCE for folks like the DMV and CHP. Here's a link: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle-industry-services/vehicle-industry-news-memos/

Scroll down to the 2017 section it's in there. Read and be confused. I can actually understand why they are confused if this is their guidance! By their own rules those two trailers I just got titles for should have been a no go (they had an SF-97 and 6 digit VIN). Do they have problems with trailers? Nope. How about a HMMWV with an out of state title? Yep. Big time. But wait.... that doesn't fit their own memo. It has an out of state title and not an SF-97 so that memo shouldn't apply, right? How about the FMVSS exception for all government vehicles as written in the federal CFR's? Has CA seceded from the Union?!? Apparently so.....

Poorly written and haphazardly interpreted rules by agencies seems to be the order of the day. The last I checked we lived in a Republic that was based on a codified set of rules. It is NOT a society of "I'm going to do what I want because I work at the DMV". As such I have legal recourse. As long as I have an avenue to legally pursue hobbies and interests of this nature I shall do so. Even if I have to fight for it. If the law is changed to impede on those activities then we shall just have to change the law and we have a process for that.

So as noted above, a HMMWV with an out of state title does not pose an issue. You may have to fight for it because of perception but it's allowed by law.

 

[windtrader]

Wow. Thank you for such passionate and thoughtful replies. Sometimes I wonder how big the hole is in my head as I deal with this nonsense with a 1976 MCI bus that was a revenue Greyhound converted to a motorhome. CARB exempted it but just this year they are taking another swipe at clearing all old two strokes off the road. I'm preparing for that battle as it heats up this year.

Brian mentions California Code of Regulations, section 2021; title 13, section 2025. The Military tactical support vehicles exemption references title 13, CCR, section 1905.

For purposes of this chapter, military tactical vehicle means a motor vehicle owned by the U.S. Department of Defense and/or the U.S. military services and used in combat, combat support, combat service support, tactical or relief operations, or training for such operations.

One could argue that this exemption does not apply to such vehicles owned by citizens or residents as we are not the US military. Just pointing this out.

So, it seems getting historical plates has been done and may provide a legal haven to drive on the road as long as it is used primarily for shows, etc. Getting them might be a bit tricky depending on how the title history from the auction.

The out of state LLC owning the vehicle and driving in CA appears generally legal but subject to hassles by over zealous CHP.

TWO QUESTIONS

How many here actually have them with legal CA titles and current registration? How many stories of these ever being revoked by CA DMV? in other words, is the grandfathering of these pre 2017 vehicles holding up?

How many have been cited by CHP with out of state plates and what was the disposition? Can they impound or otherwise inflict punitive or other such hassles via notices of bans, impound, export, revocations, etc?

This topic may be beat to death but there seems justification due to the unclarity of which paths are solid and which lead to the bog.

 

[MyothersanM1]

Brian mentions California Code of Regulations, section 2021; title 13, section 2025. The Military tactical support vehicles exemption references title 13, CCR, section 1905.

One could argue that this exemption does not apply to such vehicles owned by citizens or residents as we are not the US military. Just pointing this out.

I agree. The military tactical support vehicle clause is no longer in effect as they are now in private hands. Historic Vehicle plating per the code sections I cited is really becoming the only alternative.

TWO QUESTIONS

How many here actually have them with legal CA titles and current registration? How many stories of these ever being revoked by CA DMV? in other words, is the grandfathering of these pre 2017 vehicles holding up?

How many have been cited by CHP with out of state plates and what was the disposition? Can they impound or otherwise inflict punitive or other such hassles via notices of bans, impound, export, revocations, etc?

My M818 is titled and registered in CA as we speak. There has never been any threat of revocation from the DMV but it is an innate, hopefully irrational, fear I have every year around registration renewal notice time.

There is no law that I know of that says you cannot operate an out-of-state titled and registered vehicle in CA. Heck, rental car agencies do it en masse! I guess what it could come down to is somehow getting questioned over residency in whatever other state the vehicle is registered in. Then again, I would highly question a peace officers means of getting to that point of interrogation.

 

[windtrader]

There is no law that I know of that says you cannot operate an out-of-state titled and registered vehicle in CA. Heck, rental car agencies do it en masse! I guess what it could come down to is somehow getting questioned over residency in whatever other state the vehicle is registered in. Then again, I would highly question a peace officers means of getting to that point of interrogation.

That is the point - "residency". What I hear mentioned frequently, even outside this community is the basic CA law states as a CA resident you need to register your vehicle in CA within some period like 30 days; otherwise you are violating some regulation.

 

[williamh]

That is the point - "residency". What I hear mentioned frequently, even outside this community is the basic CA law states as a CA resident you need to register your vehicle in CA within some period like 30 days; otherwise you are violating some regulation.

that’s why my funvee is owned by my LLC in Montana. CA. Was a hard no , tried the historical plate way cuz it’s over 20 years old. Got frustrated and now I got perm plates , never got to register it again , just got to keep up with the llc.

 

[serpico760]

That is the point - "residency". What I hear mentioned frequently, even outside this community is the basic CA law states as a CA resident you need to register your vehicle in CA within some period like 30 days; otherwise you are violating some regulation.

A Montana LLC is considered an individual according to Montana and a resident of Montana. Therefore a vehicle owned by a Montana LLC is owned by a resident of Montana. Not sure how other States handle that or what they think of Montana's idea but there it is.