Replacement winch cable

[m16ty]

The 1/2" rope I found online had a min breaking force of 13-14 tons. That's 26-28,000 lbs.

Yes, but the WLL will be around 5,000lbs.

What I was trying to say is that most of the wire rope you find and look at the ratings you will see that the WLL will only be around 5,000lbs for the strongest you can find in 1/2". A WLL of 4,000 to 5,000lbs will be fine for use on a deuce winch because like you said, it will have a breaking strength of around 25,000lbs or so.

The safety factor in lifting is 5 to 1. Which, nine times out of ten, will be the WLL listed on the wire rope.

I have no idea what the safety factor is for winching operations but from the specs I've seen I'm going to say it's around 2 to 1. Maybe 3 to 1.

 

[73m819]

still 4 or 5 to 1, its still line pull, no matter if you are lifting something 1' off the ground or pulling out a struck truck

 

[tm america]

hmm i dont think the safey figure is the same for lifting as it is for pulling .if it were the deuce winch would only be rated at 5000 since the 1/2 inch cable isnt rated anyhigher than that for lifting and you would have to use two snatch blocks minium to pull out a deuce that is only stuck 4inches in the ground.the deuce rated at 10000lbs .which is the line pull rating and there is no way they could have a line pull that high using 1/2 cable if the lift rating was the same as pull ratingif you look at the wheeled driver manual it lists the deuce winch as having 10000lbs line pull and the 5ton as having 20000.lbs line pull.if you could show me a 1/2 cable with a 10000lbs lift rating i will believe it to be true

 

[Squirt-Truck]

The winch specs call for 6x19 ips, fiber core. Generally has a 20,000 to 22,000 ultimate strength. EIPS, IWRC generally goes in the 25,000 or so range. THe 6x37 rope is much easier to handle and bends better BUT is less crush resistant and not very tolerant to not winding smooth and level on a drum. It is also less tolerant of abrasion.
Fiber core is always more flexable than IWRC, but is much more subject to inner lay corrosion, and that will sneal up on you ang get someone hurt.

Safety factors, towing opertions, we certify safe working load limits at 2:1.
73M819 is a crane operator and has to deal with LIFT safety factor all the time, those we certify at (here is the confusing part) 4:1 based on test loads which are 125% of rated load, this is the same as 5:1 on the WLL. These are ASME standards for overhead lifting. Lifting personnel sends the safety factor to 10:1.

A bigger concern is the end termination, thimbles and clamps only give 70% of the rope strength, spelters give 100%, crane clamps give 85%. This is the area where we see the most problems with wire rope.

So...Good 1/2" rope with >20,000 ultimate strength is fine for a 2-1/2 ton (10,000# capacity winch),stronger is better, but harder to handle.

Just do not let your rope get like this one before replacement.....

 

[m16ty]

if you could show me a 1/2 cable with a 10000lbs lift rating i will believe it to be true

I'm not saying they don't make it but in my line of work it's my job to know what any given size cable is rated for and I have yet to see any 1/2" wire rope that had a lifting WLL as high as 10,000lbs.

I would be interested in buying a bunch of it if it can be had .

 

[tm america]

man that cable looks better than mine are you saying i should change mine out

 

[tm america]

there are so many different factors when comparing a lit to a pull lifts involve winds and drafts and other variables that have to be acounted for pulls are ussually a little less complicated as it is more a figure of resistance vs pull needed

 

[Csm Davis]

well without any whine can anyone point me in the right direction for synthetic line of 1" and 3/4" size. I am not buying right now but when I break the ones I have now and I will break them, I will have an idea what I want.

 

[73m819]

there are so many different factors when comparing a lit to a pull lifts involve winds and drafts and other variables that have to be acounted for pulls are ussually a little less complicated as it is more a figure of resistance vs pull needed

a interesting read is chapter 3 in FM 20-22" VEHICILE RECOVERY OPERATION" this covers this.

unless you are just going to roll the truck (in that case your not stuck) you will be working the cable well over the WL , thats why , part of the BII is a SNATCH BLOCK

 

[wldrbob]

look up the master pull site their 7/16 rope is 40,000 pounds breaking strength they have other brand names of rope toWinch Rope, Winch Ropes Specifications 3/4 inch 110000lbs breaking 100 ft lengths

 

[m16ty]

Wow. I had no idea they could get that kind of strength out of synthetics.

 

[cjcottrill]

Still reading, charts start at page 40.

http://www.thecableconnection.com/Content/Military%20Specifications/RR-W-410.pdf

 

[jollyroger]

I looked and can't find the popcorn eating smiley. I was hoping to break the tension with it. And no I don't have a breaking strength rating for this level of tension.

And on that note. I have used synthetic, M-37 wire rope(fiber core), and the cable supplied with my Warn electric winches and Ramsey PTO winches. All of them have inherant risks and rewards. The use of each is enteriely subjective. I know guys that like the synthetic and swear by it. Then other guys hate it and would never touch it. I think it just depends on what you prefer.

We have a "combine strap" that we use here on the farm for pulling the John Deere 4955 out of trouble. It weighs about 50,000 lbs. I have never gotten the big dog stuck so we really use the strap to pull other things with the 4955. It is about 2" diameter synthetic. It has a rated line pull of 120,000 lbs. I like the synthetic rope for this purpose. It is lighter than chain or cable so easier to handle. It is not rolled over a drum so we don't have the problems that winching creates with synthetic. It is very durrable for it's size but I would not say as durrable as chain or cable for the same purpose.

I personally don't like synthetic on winches because I don't think it is as durrable as wire rope or cable. I would say safer from the standpoint of no hand punctures and no snap back when it breaks. When it breaks you can tie a knot in it and keep working. However not safer from the standpoint of the rope breaking at a critical moment while winching a Jeep over a rock obstacle setting the winchee free to fall off the obstacle. I've seen it happen. If the rope abraids against ANYTHING it will be damaged and can immediately fail. I am also skeptical of it's performance and durrability through a snatch block. That's when we have had the most problems with it. It is awesome in a perfect world. we all know that is not the world we live in.....I just don't think the technology is refined enough to use on the heavier trucks like the deuce and I don't trust it enough to use in critical situations on my Jeeps as of right now. I think the technology is improving and will someday be trustworthy for winching.

 

[m16ty]

I am familar with synthetic slings used in lifting. Some even have a kevlar cover over them but you still have to be very careful not to damage them when using them.

 

[jollyroger]

Most of the current winch ropes I have seen come with a "guard" at the tail and head of the rope. It is usually 10-25 feet to cover the abbrasion and heat caused by the drum and about a 10 foot cover at the thimbal (hook) end. This seems to help a bit on the abrasion resitance and durrability but you still have to be careful with the rope coming into contact with anything. Granted most of the time you are not winching over a rock ledge at a 90 degree angle but it is a concern. The places I have seen the rope come into contact and abraid are mostly when there is vehicle to vehicle winching. Then you are moving an object spooling your winch in and you are stopped or deadmaned. This creates a situation where the rope is moving and the winching vehicle is not. Then if the rope comes in contact with an object it is moving past the object can seriously damage the rope creating a bad section rather than a bad point. Then you gotta cut out the bad section of rope and pretty soon you go from 100 feet to 30 feet and your winch is pretty much useless. Hope you have a spare rope and or some other friends with winches. The other scenario is you are winching yourself to an anchor point and the rope saws back and fourth over a hard object creating a bad spot and you have a failure or need to cut the rope before you have a failure in operation. In either scenario the rope needs to be replaced after that trip. In either of those scenarios I find the wire rope or cable to be much more durrable and dependable. Not that they can't break or be damaged in the same way. I have seen that too. But mostly I can keep using my winch cables after they have been damaged slightly in those situations in order to get me off the trail and back home.

I guess in reality the winch rope is fine so long as you expect to replace it more often and also expect to carry backup ropes in case you damage one and need to keep winching to get home........ Although within that thought I find the winch rope to be much more expensive and labor intensive and I still question it's ability to run through a snatch block even if the snatch block is new and free from barbs. Like I said before I just don't think the product has progressed to the point I am comfortable with using it on my winches yet.

 

[73m819]

i have noticed that line trucks use syntyetic for the hoist in case of hot wire contract. the drums seem to be bigger, the sheave at the end of the boon is larger as well as a snatch block used to make two part, at the end of the boom is two plates flared out to guide the rope on the sheave. all of this is done to save the hoist cable, i cant imagine what to would take to make this useable as a winch cable in a HOSTILE environment like MUD, SAND, ROCKS, TIGHT TURNS across something, ANGLED PULLS and people who don't know what to do with a winch cable but hook and pull (though thay kill steel also)

 

[tm america]

i agree you shouldnt be running any winch cable up against rocks any any cable can fail from that the question you need to ask yourself is what do you want the cable to do when it breaks .wire =dangerous whip action in a break.synthetic= no whip .if you are winching your jeep up a rock face i would advise you protect your cable no matter what kind of cable you are using.

 

[kwiksilver]

ummm... 100' of 7/16 superline from the masterpull link is....drumroll... $718...ouch