repower with a screming detroit or possible big cam cummins?

[res0wc18]

what year did the cummins 5.9 12 valve start appearing in international medium duty trucks?

 

[southdave]

Yes they are also in the some F-550

 

[mudguppy]

Yes they are also in the some F-550

no, they're not. only in F650/750's or F600-800's (older).

to answer the posted question, i want to say (w/out certain ascertation) mid to early 90's....?

 

[res0wc18]

so if i had a medium duty international from 85 with a ten speed and its a cummins what would it be?

 

[nhdiesel]

Cummins 5.9 History

An 85 International could have a couple different engines, usually their own (DT series) but some had 5.9 Cummins. The Cummins was somewhat popular in International school buses, which is probably the cheapest source for a 5.9/Allison combo.

I'm no expert on the medium dutys, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong. From an internet search, about all I could find for '85 were the DT engines, but I do remember a lot of buses coming with the Cummins, just not sure on the exact years.

I do know the first year for Dodge trucks was '89, turbo but no intercooler. The 5.9 Cummins, in my opinion, has the best combo of easy to find, durable, cheap & easy to upgrade, and aftermarket parts support. I won't go as far as saying its the best at any one of those things, but when factoring all of them together, I think its at the top.

But it also happens to be my favorite small/medium diesel.

Jim

 

[mudguppy]

so if i had a medium duty international from 85 with a ten speed and its a cummins what would it be?

tough to say. best i can find is that they didn't start using the small Cummins until '91. and in '85, they had the 6.9, the dt360, and the dt466 as in-house options. with those options (and the latter two are arguably as good if not better than the 5.9 or 8.3 cummins), it doesn't make any sense for that to be a factory configuration.

the norm seems to be the 6.9 / 5spd or one of the dt's with a 5+2.

not saying you don't have what you have - just would be an odd combo, me thinks (but i know very little). either way, cummins was always pretty good about maintaining good engine ID tags; so one quick peak should tell you everything you need to know.

 

[mudguppy]

Cummins 5.9 History

An 85 International could have a couple different engines, usually their own (DT series) but some had 5.9 Cummins. The Cummins was somewhat popular in International school buses, which is probably the cheapest source for a 5.9/Allison combo. ... From an internet search, about all I could find for '85 were the DT engines, but I do remember a lot of buses coming with the Cummins, just not sure on the exact years. ...

that's about all i could find; seems any bus pre-'90 had the 6.9 or dt360, few w/ the 466. after, most were 7.3 and a good bunch were 5.9.

still, i can't find a mid-'80s truck (or even late '80s) w/ anything but an Int'l in it, or even listing anything else as an option...

 

[saddamsnightmare]

October 21st, 2009.

RES0W18:

If your pockets are deep enough, I would suggest contacting any one of the dealers that handle the Deutz diesels, much better built and more robust then a GMC... the -71 series always left something to be desired in torque, and the sound of them, well, the nickname "Screaming Jimmy" didn't get created outta thin air (more like thick air, actually).
I had a Deutz air cooled diesel for a generator set, and it would start at -30F without crankcase heat or ether, run for 30 seconds and cut out. Second start she'd run rough for a minute or so, then come right up to speed and power by herself. Being a 4 cycle gives it a rather mellow sound, and parts are available around the world. They also make water cooled and marine diesels, so if you really liked the truck, that would be the way to go.
Possibly Will Wagner above has some experience with Deutz's, or not, but he does know his engines.

Just my .02 worth,

Cheers,

Kyle F. McGrogan

I'm still not sure why the Army picked that lame Cat 3116 in the A-3's as it is such a poor design engine.
N.B. "More Power, Scotty, we're falling into the atmosphere!" More power in a deuce doesn't always relate to speed, but with the low geared axles she has, all you'll do with much more power is spin your wheels on soft ground. I have heard that the bobbed deuces are very vicious about slipping and sliding with the loss of the 3rd axle. About all you gain is a reduced tire bill..........

 

[WPNS421]

I can get you an Detroit with an Allison tranny for about $1800.00 + freight. A guy I know who has quite a few of them, he removed them from the truck before parting them. The trucks I have are all runners, you jump in flip the switches and the starter button and it is a go.
The going price for an MLVW with a few parts missing(oil filter housing/oil cooler and starter)go for about $4000.00. The price of MVs in Canada is crazy, my MLVWs painted, and running will go for about $7500 not registered for the road, my MLVW w/Hiab, I am asking $15K.
I know this sounds crazy but the market is so different than in the US, the few people interested will pay the big bucks for good MVs. Around here people are generally very cheap and want the very best you have and want to pay nothing.
You guys know the time and efford we put into our MVs and I will not lose money on a truck.
My MLVWs can be imported into the US and a title obtained with the proper paperwork. I am thinking of selling my ML w/Hiab to a friend who will title it and them resell back to me, I will them reimport the truck to Canada with a US title and they will register my truck in Canada. Sounds stupid, but true.

 

[nhdiesel]

The Deutz is a decent diesel, I'd put the 6 cyl. liquid-cooled on par with a 5.9 Cummins size, weight, and power wise (just an estimate from owning two). If you can find Iveco box trucks, they usually have the Deutz. I've bought two, both in decent shape. One was $1100 and had 39k miles on it, the other had a couple hundred thousand and I paid $800. Both 5-speeds. Pretty good fuel mileage as well, the $800 one had a short 12-foot box and got a little over 20 mpg. Not bad for a cabover box truck with the frontal shape of a brick wall.

With factory adapters I know you can locate SAE bellhousings and Chrysler (the autos in an Iveco were Chryslers).

Jim

 

[southdave]

no, they're not. only in F650/750's or F600-800's (older).

to answer the posted question, i want to say (w/out certain ascertation) mid to early 90's....?

I had 98 with one in it I think it was first year of the pick-up platform see if i can scan the pick it was factory with 6 speed

 

[nhdiesel]

From everything I've seen, I've never seen a Ford with factory installed Cummins any smaller than an F600/F650. When doing research for my old boss, who wanted a Ford rollback with Cummins, nothing was available any smaller than F650.

I think either an F450 or 550 would be great with a 5.9.

Jim

 

[mudguppy]

i'd like to see that.

 

[southdave]

My bad it wasn't Fac. It was my work truck for 4 years when I ran a paver crew still trying load the picks it was brought @ and auction in kansas 2000. after I left it was used as a small euipment drag and wrecked.

 

[cattlerepairman]

The Deutz is a decent diesel, I'd put the 6 cyl. liquid-cooled on par with a 5.9 Cummins size, weight, and power wise (just an estimate from owning two). If you can find Iveco box trucks, they usually have the Deutz. I've bought two, both in decent shape. One was $1100 and had 39k miles on it, the other had a couple hundred thousand and I paid $800. Both 5-speeds. Pretty good fuel mileage as well, the $800 one had a short 12-foot box and got a little over 20 mpg. Not bad for a cabover box truck with the frontal shape of a brick wall.

With factory adapters I know you can locate SAE bellhousings and Chrysler (the autos in an Iveco were Chryslers).

Jim

Wow, I did not even know that Deutz Diesels were used in North America outside of gensets. They are indeed very good engines with a long history of military use as well. We had an aircooled 177 hp six cylinder in our ladder truck....a screamer...unbelievably loud (no water jacket) but dependable and no issues in 20 years (which says much for an engine that is cold-started and redlined all the time).

 

[res0wc18]

I can get you an Detroit with an Allison tranny for about $1800.00 + freight. A guy I know who has quite a few of them, he removed them from the truck before parting them.

is that with the mounts etc to fit into an m35? Are they overdrive allisons?

the motor in the international in questions is a straight six cummins he swears and its a true ten speed

deutz diesels are too expensive/ non existent around here.

 

[WPNS421]

The diesel engine in most Ford F250/350 are cummins small blocks or so I been led to believe. I see These Fords at the big truck center such as IH and they are doing engine work. I don't know if the mounts are included with the engines, I would have to check.

 

[nhdiesel]

Like I said...look for Iveco trucks. The trucks aren't worth anything in the U.S. because you can't buy even common parts for them. One of mine needed fuses replaced, I called every source I could come up with in the U.S. and no luck. I finally had to have an online friend ship some over from Europe. I had to pay Classic Tube in N.Y. to make custom SS brake lines. I sent them the lines, and they had to reuse all of my fittings, because there aren't any available here. I see the trucks for sale all the time for under $1000 complete and in good running condition.

One of mine even had an exhaust brake that I salvaged, unfortunately it got lost when I moved. It would have been great on my Cummins Durango!

Very rugged engines, I knew nothing about them until I bought my first Iveco.

Parts Here (no connection, just looked for the ad)

Jim

 

[nhdiesel]

The diesel engine in most Ford F250/350 are cummins small blocks or so I been led to believe. I see These Fords at the big truck center such as IH and they are doing engine work. I don't know if the mounts are included with the engines, I would have to check.

No, those are all made by International.

Jim

 

[mudguppy]

The diesel engine in most Ford F250/350 are cummins small blocks or so I been led to believe. ....

yes - someone has lied to you. this statement probably came right after the statement that "Ford owns Cummins".

not your fault, people just like to make crap up.