Sea foam in fuel system

[Kenny0]

I also agree you don't need any additives. Keep or remove any water in the fuel tank, run and operate the generator regularly and use high quality filters. Don't buy the cheapest ones you find, also a high priced filter is not always a quality filter. You should be doing this already and no additives necessary. Ultra low diesel fuel imo has been given a bad rap. It all started when Europe went to ultra low sulfur fuel. The sulfur is not the lubricant, the process to remove the sulfur removes the lubricity. In Europe the ultra low sulfur fuel wasn't checked for lubricity to begin with and that's when the problems started. Lots of injection pump failures, then they started adding lubricity to the fuel and no more problems. Europe started using ultra low sulfur before we did. I have worked on and around a lot of diesel equipment during the time of the transition to ultra low sulfur diesel and there were no rash of injection pump or fuel system related issues. All diesel fuel gets lubricity added to it before the pump. One way they add lubricity is add bio diesel of up to 5% which does not have to be labeled as bio fuel at the pump, there are also other ways they add lubricity. All fuel from the pump has lubricity added. The lubricity of diesel fuel started in Europe and never died. IMO the lubricity thing should be put in the grave, but most likely won't because of the internet. In the end, do what makes you comfortable. I have never used any additives except in my MEP 802 I use a fuel stabilizer. I know a lot of people and construction companies that don't use additives of any kind and they don't have injection pump problems.

 

[rustystud]

I know there are a lot of folks here who do not believe in any "old wives tales" of injection pump failures due to "Ultra Low Sulpher" fuels. Well having worked at a transit agency where we lost over 500 pumps (closer to 800) in 6 months I can honestly say the old wives tales are true ! So having said that I also know all the "modern" diesel engine fuel injection pumps are designed for this fuel. The problem is our older military equipment that was NOT designed for this ultra low sulpher fuel. So I like many others use "Opti-Lube" in my fuel. Also to help stabilize my fuel (since I keep over 300 gallons on hand at all times) I add "Pri-D" fuel stabilizer. That along with "Biobor " anti-algae keeps my fuel ready for use at any time. I've run fuel that was 10 years old with no problems with this system. When people say they "know" companies that never use additives, that is all well and good. The fact is these companies go through ALL their fuel in a matter of weeks not years. In the end do what you want, just check what people say. There's plenty of accurate information out there. You just need to look.

 

[Chainbreaker]

I look at using a QUALITY additive as like buying an insurance policy. In addition to the lubricity factor there are also other benefits like raising the cetane rating. I remember when I lived in Colorado I began seeing stations around ~2002 that began to advertise "Premium Diesel". There was Shell station near my house that one day put up a "Premium Diesel" sign. Not understanding the difference I contacted Shell corporate and asked: Just what is "Premium Diesel" and why do I need it? Their response back to me was that it had a higher cetane rating than regular diesel and it produced less smoke at higher altitudes in addition to increased performance. Haven't seen any stations lately, at least not on the West Coast, advertising "Premium Diesel" since ULSD was introduced. Today's cetane ratings seem to have taken a bit of a hit based on the older non-ULSD I used to use years ago.

If I can insure I have better lubricity along with higher cetane + water dispersant + anti-gel properties during winter, by using an additive I'm all over it. I live a lot by the rule...Its better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. If somehow a mixing valve was faulty or wrong ingredient was inadvertently substituted somewhere along the line causing a bad batch of fuel I don't want to shorten the life of my engine or end up in a positon of having to hire an atty to prove XYZ company's fuel ruined my engine. I hope my Cummins 5.9L in my PU will be one of those high mileage engines that can run upwards of a million miles, so it gets babied with a std dose of additive along with my generators, tractor and mower. I do understand that much of the newer on road diesel engines (seems like 2007+) are very particular about additives primarily due to all the added emissions control equipment. So the owners manual should always be observed and followed.

Of course, I have known people that treat their vehicles and machines like crap (neglect maintenance, use low quality off brand cheap filters, off brand oil, questionable fueling stations, etc.) and somehow manage to dodge the bullet but I suspect that will eventually catch up with them...or the future owners of those abused machines.

 

[Bmxenbrett]

For adding lubricity back into ULSD i use 2 stroke oil. I believe about 1oz per gallon. The cheap walmart super- tech stuff is good enough as long as its TC W3 rated.

 

[silverstate55]

I've used Seafoam for quite some time on engines/fuel systems that have been sitting for awhile, both gas & diesel. All with great success. I don't use it as a stabilizer nor for long-term storage, other products are better suited for that. But to loosen up a "stale" fuel system it works well and fairly quickly for me.

 

[Kenny0]

I am not trying to change anyones mind, this is just my thoughts. I don't think any fuel supplier would take the risk of selling substandard fuel. Although some companies of various products do take a risk. Look at VW for one. Class Action lawyers would be all over it like stink on you know what. Here's a tech paper on lubricity of several fuels with a little history. ws680.nist.gov/publication/get_pdf.cfm?pub_id=916044 . In the end, just do what you are comfortable with. Enough said.

 

[justacitizen]

I am not trying to change anyones mind, this is just my thoughts. I don't think any fuel supplier would take the risk of selling substandard fuel. Although some companies of various products do take a risk. Look at VW for one. Class Action lawyers would be all over it like stink on you know what. Here's a tech paper on lubricity of several fuels with a little history. ws680.nist.gov/publication/get_pdf.cfm?pub_id=916044 . In the end, just do what you are comfortable with. Enough said.

in my neck of the woods there are sellers who specialize in blended recovered and damaged fuels. it is cheap and for a reason.

 

[rustystud]

in my neck of the woods there are sellers who specialize in blended recovered and damaged fuels. it is cheap and for a reason.

I still remember that batch of fuel I got in "Ellensburg WA." . I made it five miles out of town before my engine started acting like a raped Ape ! I nursed it along for miles going barely above 20 MPH before I could hit another fuel station and put in some decent fuel. It still acted bad but the mix of bad and good fuel was enough to finally get me home where I could drain my fuel tank. So sorry for those who think fuels will always be great. You never know what the fuel station has in the bottom of their tanks.

 

[porkysplace]

in my neck of the woods there are sellers who specialize in blended recovered and damaged fuels. it is cheap and for a reason.

There is a certain amount of this created by pipeline shipping known as "batching".

[
Many liquid petroleum pipelines transport different types of liquid petroleum in the same pipeline. To do so, the pipeline operator sends different products in “batches”. For example, an operator might send gasoline for several hours, and then switch to jet fuels, before switching to diesel fuel. The process of tracking the customer’s batch or product through the pipeline is done through scheduling. Once the product has been scheduled and actually transported, a ticket is written that shows the type of product transported, the amount, transportation origination and destination points, and the owner.
Throughout the process, the product is measured at the receipt point in the pipeline and again upon delivery to document the amount of product moved from point A to point B. Many pipeline systems require the shipper to meet defined common product specifications for each product shipped. What is delivered for the shipper at the point of delivery may not be the same fuel shipped, but it will meet the same specifications (e.g., regular unleaded gasoline, ultra-low sulfur diesel). ]

There is a video of how "batching " works in this link;
http://www.pipeline101.org/How-Do-Pipelines-Work/What-Is-Batching

 

[Captaincarrier]

I have an associate that does testing of fuel additives for his market sector. He refers to the Wall of Shame (WOS) where he will place water, fuel, a carbon steel nail and the test subject - fuel additive. In everyone of his test they all fail to provide all of the claims made on their labels. I have a photo of this WOS from a few years back.

 

[justacitizen]

There is a certain amount of this created by pipeline shipping known as "batching".

[
Many liquid petroleum pipelines transport different types of liquid petroleum in the same pipeline. To do so, the pipeline operator sends different products in “batches”. For example, an operator might send gasoline for several hours, and then switch to jet fuels, before switching to diesel fuel. The process of tracking the customer’s batch or product through the pipeline is done through scheduling. Once the product has been scheduled and actually transported, a ticket is written that shows the type of product transported, the amount, transportation origination and destination points, and the owner.
Throughout the process, the product is measured at the receipt point in the pipeline and again upon delivery to document the amount of product moved from point A to point B. Many pipeline systems require the shipper to meet defined common product specifications for each product shipped. What is delivered for the shipper at the point of delivery may not be the same fuel shipped, but it will meet the same specifications (e.g., regular unleaded gasoline, ultra-low sulfur diesel). ]

There is a video of how "batching " works in this link;
http://www.pipeline101.org/How-Do-Pipelines-Work/What-Is-Batching

YUP! we have a pipeline terminal near me. some brands add their color and additive package if any at the site. the pipeline inserts a pig into the line and then loads product behind it and then insert another pig and the next product and so on and so on in one large never ending train. one product pushes the next along the line. there is constant leakage from one pig to another. when mistakes or accidents happen the store and blend the product until it meets MINIMUM standards and sell cheap.

 

[Chainbreaker]

I agree with that a fuel company would not intentionally produce fuel that does not meet minimum fuel standards. However, mistakes are sometimes made and no one is the wiser. That is until something happens to bring it to light.

I recall an aviation accident several years ago where one wing tank of a general aviation aircraft somehow ended up with a fill of Jet-A instead of 100LL. According to the crash investigation, the pilot had switched over to the other tank containing the Jet-A during flight and sometime after the switch-over the engine really didn't like the Jet-A fuel it was then being fed. Down it went! Another one that hit close to home from an airport in CO that I used to fly out of...A woman that owned & piloted a nice Mooney was in a hurry to make an out of town app't and neglected to do all the std pre-flight steps required for her aircraft. The story I was told is that being in a rush to depart she neglected to take any fuel samples. Apparently, she did her run up and all was normal so she took off in a hurry. Her plane didn't make it but less than a mile from airport when engine quit. She tried to make a turn back to airport but was too low, she didn't make it. Accident investigation revealed "significant water in fuel". Recently it seems trains are coming off tracks a lot due to human error...trains get derailed due to simple rail "switch setting" mistakes. The list goes on... Granted these examples don't necessarily implicate the fuel mfg however the point is...when there are people involved in the process sometimes steps inadvertently get skipped or overlooked or equipment malfunctions contributing to uncertain outcomes. We are human, we are fallible unfortunately. Well...until AI takes over and I hope the programmers get it right first time!

Anyway, that's why I always use quality additives and keep all my fueling receipts for any fuel until its been consumed + a month or so. Ya never know, one might need "proof of purchase" just in case of issues either due to the endpoint station storage issues or issues somewhere else up the line. Regardless of my local fuel quality, all my engines seem happy with my diesel additive insurance routine. But hey, I think my car runs better after a wash...lol

Anyway, we've drifted a ways from the OP's simple question about using Seafoam, however there have been some good additive/fuel comments that have surfaced!

 

[Chainbreaker]

Here is an enlightening read on using diesel with biodiesel blends greater than B5:

https://breakingenergy.com/2014/07/30/fuel-stability-problems-challenge-fame-biodiesel/

 

[rustystud]

Here is an enlightening read on using diesel with biodiesel blends greater than B5:

https://breakingenergy.com/2014/07/30/fuel-stability-problems-challenge-fame-biodiesel/

That is an "eye opening" read ! Thanks Chainbreaker for sharing that.

 

[Chainbreaker]

BTW, that photo of the Mercedes engine crankcase in the article looks darn nasty!!!

For those of us that have ever used Biodiesel fuel of greater than 5%, I wonder if perhaps SeaFoam's recommendation of using SeaFoam before an oil change is worthy of consideration? Perhaps a sludge build-up preventative maintenance measure? Seafoam also indicates you can use it after an oil change and to then change oil after new oil becomes dirty. I think I would only consider that in a situation where sludging is really bad. My fear would be that in a badly sludged engine you could run the risk of knocking a lot of crud loose and plugging an oil passage way.

I've always been an advocate of frequent oil changes by the book without using any additives but that biodiesel induced sludge photo is going to give me nightmares! I guess the SeaFoam oil treatment is similar to those that use ATF as an engine crankcase cleaner now & then.

 

[rustystud]

BTW, that photo of the Mercedes engine crankcase in the article looks darn nasty!!!

For those of us that have ever used Biodiesel fuel of greater than 5%, I wonder if perhaps SeaFoam's recommendation of using SeaFoam before an oil change is worthy of consideration? Perhaps a sludge build-up preventative maintenance measure? Seafoam also indicates you can use it after an oil change and to then change oil after new oil becomes dirty. I think I would only consider that in a situation where sludging is really bad. My fear would be that in a badly sludged engine you could run the risk of knocking a lot of crud loose and plugging an oil passage way.

I've always been an advocate of frequent oil changes by the book without using any additives but that biodiesel induced sludge photo is going to give me nightmares! I guess the SeaFoam oil treatment is similar to those that use ATF as an engine crankcase cleaner now & then.

Yeah that sludge was "extreme" !!! It would have taken more then a few quarts of ATF to clean that mess up !

 

[frank8003]

Hello ~regarding my fuel system on my genset. I have an MEP 002 for my backup power. I usually start it up and run it for a half an hour a month to keep it ready to go . ~
what should I do about keeping the system clean? I have been reading about sea foam for vehicles, what would be a recommended amount to use if I wanted to add this to my fuel system? ~usually add a lubricant ~ Want to keep it clean, but don't want to damage the IP either. Any input would be appreciated, Thanks, metalworker393

Which flavor Seafoam? What is Seafoam made of? What is your specific fuel consumption at load?
170 gallons a week?
View attachment seafoam motor treatment MSDS.pdf
Seafoam is 3 part fluid. You are not having a problem with the fuel but it seems the fuel is lacking is lubricity or cleaning ability, is that the question? How about a quart of Naptha and a quart of your favorite motor oil to 50 gallons of fuel. That should keep everything happy.

 

[Carmancraig]

lve been a pro mecanic for 20+ years. Seafoam is an excellent product for carbon cleanout with ring lubricating and oil galley/desludging cleaning as well. Not a good thing for daily use. Fill your fuel filter with it when you change it, but dont run it constantly.