Seeking input on dump bed project

[LCA078]

A few months ago, I purchased a really clean military dump bed that looks like it was taken off a M51 Dump (M35 series 5-tons) as it has the PTO driven hydraulic pump that's integrated into the dump frame. My goals was to put it on my M925 after I shorten the frame a bit but since the M925 has an engine knock, I wonder if I should find a clean M931 tractor and toss it on that instead. I'd mainly use it for ranch work and would rarely have it on the highway so a winch would be a benefit. Any pros or cons with putting it on either the M925 or M931 (assuming both are running and are in same shape).

I have no idea if I can connect the PTO or have to use a separate hydraulic pump system.

 

[Lukes_deuce]

Both trucks are the same besides frame length. If your going to do the dump bed install your self, I would keep the 925 and go from there. Its much easier to shorten a frame than it is to lengthen one. You just have to slide the tandem forward. Plus you already have the truck. Or a 931 wouldnt need any frame modifications, you just have to drop the bed on it. Depends on what type of work you want to do. I say keep the 925, remove the visor/cab protector on the dump body and install a knuckle boom in between the cab and dump body.


As for hydraulics, are you sure there is a pump already in the frame? Im not familiar with that particular unit but I know the 929 has the tank and cylinder built into the frame of the dump. The PTO and pump are below, with the PTO on the transmission and the pump is bolted on the frame, connected with a driveshaft.

 

[simp5782]

There are self contained dump units on govplanet. Simple bolt on setup. Just hook up your hydraulic lines.

 

[LCA078]

This dump bed has the self-contained hydraulic pump and tank system that is driven by a PTO. This is a pic of the PTO driven system on my bed. I understand the right side is the control system (lift and lower).



I thought these were the old style systems from previous generation 5-ton series while and the newer M939 series did not have the self-contained system. Where is the dump bed hydraulic pump for the M929? Is it integral like mine?

 

[DeMilitarized]

There are self contained dump units on govplanet. Simple bolt on setup. Just hook up your hydraulic lines.

Wes, what do you mean "bolt on setup" Swiss and I are looking for easy dump beds to put on a m931a2.

 

[tobyS]

Looks like you just need a driveshaft and pto and some linkage. I had some pto's...but all gone. Go for new seals where possible. Does it have the bed lock down like the 929?

Good find on the bed....they are not too common. Myself, I'd use a nice 931, maybe an A1 version and especially one with winch......which would have pump and pto.

 

[simp5782]

Wes, what do you mean "bolt on setup" Swiss and I are looking for easy dump beds to put on a m931a2.

It's a whole unit. Has hydraulic lift cylinder and pivots tank etc. Some have controls. Some don't. You simply hook the existing lines to a PTO/pump. It's for a PLS. Its a load on rack then the dump bed operates independently from the rack. Simply add brackets to the rack and bolt it down so only the dump raises.

It's going to be too big for the 931 though.

934 chassis would be best. Maybe a 923 if you added 4 of frame

 

[LCA078]

As for hydraulics, are you sure there is a pump already in the frame? Im not familiar with that particular unit but I know the 929 has the tank and cylinder built into the frame of the dump. The PTO and pump are below, with the PTO on the transmission and the pump is bolted on the frame, connected with a driveshaft.

My 923 does not have have built in hydraulics but my non-working 925 does. The 925 has the same set up as the 929 which is a PTO-to-frame-mounted-pump. Then it's hoses to the winch, dump bed, etc. My bed is from the older 5-tons where the pump was integral to the dump frame. Only hoses in my set up are to the integrated cylinders (same basic cylinder hoist design across multiple generations). The problem with tossing my bed on a M939 series truck is the transfer case blocks the area where the PTO shaft would need to connect between the transmission and integral pump. I guess older M818 and M51 style trucks had a different layout so a PTO shaft was feasible. Otherwise, I'd get a M931 in heartbeat...probably even a 931A2 for fuel economy...and just toss the dump on top of it. I heard there is such a thing as a M932 (tractor w/winch) but I've never seen one. Would be perfect otherwise.

Does it have the bed lock down like the 929?
Good find on the bed....they are not too common. Myself, I'd use a nice 931, maybe an A1 version and especially one with winch......which would have pump and pto.

No bed lock. Not sure if that's a good thing or not. I couldn't believe I stumbled on that bed- very clean with no dents. I kinda feel bad to use it as a working dump and beat it up. Sitting in the back of it was also an older PTO driven 20K winch, a PTO shaft, and a fuel tank. No idea what to do with the winch but it's there.

It's a whole unit. Has hydraulic lift cylinder and pivots tank etc. Some have controls. Some don't. You simply hook the existing lines to a PTO/pump. It's for a PLS. Its a load on rack then the dump bed operates independently from the rack. Simply add brackets to the rack and bolt it down so only the dump raises.

It's going to be too big for the 931 though.

934 chassis would be best. Maybe a 923 if you added 4 of frame

Wes- are you referring to these in the attached pic? If so, they look pretty tough and heavy. For that coin, I'd probably just get a standard 14ft or so dump for my M925 (assuming I can get it running). Very cool piece of equipment though.

 

[simp5782]

My 923 does not have have built in hydraulics but my non-working 925 does. The 925 has the same set up as the 929 which is a PTO-to-frame-mounted-pump. Then it's hoses to the winch, dump bed, etc. My bed is from the older 5-tons where the pump was integral to the dump frame. Only hoses in my set up are to the integrated cylinders (same basic cylinder hoist design across multiple generations). The problem with tossing my bed on a M939 series truck is the transfer case blocks the area where the PTO shaft would need to connect between the transmission and integral pump. I guess older M818 and M51 style trucks had a different layout so a PTO shaft was feasible. Otherwise, I'd get a M931 in heartbeat...probably even a 931A2 for fuel economy...and just toss the dump on top of it. I heard there is such a thing as a M932 (tractor w/winch) but I've never seen one. Would be perfect otherwise.


No bed lock. Not sure if that's a good thing or not. I couldn't believe I stumbled on that bed- very clean with no dents. I kinda feel bad to use it as a working dump and beat it up. Sitting in the back of it was also an older PTO driven 20K winch, a PTO shaft, and a fuel tank. No idea what to do with the winch but it's there.



Wes- are you referring to these in the attached pic? If so, they look pretty tough and heavy. For that coin, I'd probably just get a standard 14ft or so dump for my M925 (assuming I can get it running). Very cool piece of equipment though.

For what is cost to get one of those units. Versus the cost of a decent bed, welding the pivots to the truck or bolting. Adding a tank, controls etc plus a decent 6inch cylinder. They are pretty cheap.

 

[tobyS]

So you have a winch on an m925 which includes a pto, shaft and pump to transfer to the 923 and you bob the frame in the back, not getting into the drive, cutting off the excess and moving the pintle frame with diagonals, forward. That keeps your behind cab space from growing too much.

 

[LCA078]

For what is cost to get one of those units. Versus the cost of a decent bed, welding the pivots to the truck or bolting. Adding a tank, controls etc plus a decent 6inch cylinder. They are pretty cheap.

I'd be in a full $9-10K to buy one of those, pay the taxes and fees, and then have it shipped to me with no idea of its condition. Not saying it's a bad deal, just saying it's a deal not for me in my current situation.

So you have a winch on an m925 which includes a pto, shaft and pump to transfer to the 923 and you bob the frame in the back, not getting into the drive, cutting off the excess and moving the pintle frame with diagonals, forward. That keeps your behind cab space from growing too much.

I'm keeping my 923 as is- will be my 'daily driver' since it's a clean truck. I just need to get the 925 running first which will really determine which route I go. Of course, it's all about having time to work on it.

 

[tobyS]

That is even better.....you use the tank in the frame and seal off the (old) In frame pump, using the pump from the 925. Some valving change is necessary but you could just take hoses from the winch and redirect them to the cylinder to have a working dump. All you need is a 2 circuit valve then. unlike the winch, you need a volume of oil to fill those cylinders and the tank is just right.

I bought a couple trucks for parts and got them all going. Make a fuel tank to sit on the cowling and feed direct to the fuel pump. If you plan to run a while, you will need a return line too.

 

[LCA078]

I think sealing off the old pump is pretty easy but I can also just reroute the lines to a tee in the pump side of the 925. I'd like to study the plumbing a bit but I think it is doable. Thanks for the support!

 

[simp5782]

I'd be in a full $9-10K to buy one of those, pay the taxes and fees, and then have it shipped to me with no idea of its condition. Not saying it's a bad deal, just saying it's a deal not for me in my current situation.


I'm keeping my 923 as is- will be my 'daily driver' since it's a clean truck. I just need to get the 925 running first which will really determine which route I go. Of course, it's all about having time to work on it.

Just late to the party. 4 sold out of Victoria, TX for 3400ea in November.

Other option is an international 4600 dump truck. Especially those with the 8.3s if you have an a2 truck. Complete parts etc with dump, pto. Allison etc. They sell for around 4 to 5k running at auction.

 

[DeMilitarized]

Just late to the party. 4 sold out of Victoria, TX for 3400ea in November.

Other option is an international 4600 dump truck. Especially those with the 8.3s if you have an a2 truck. Complete parts etc with dump, pto. Allison etc. They sell for around 4 to 5k running at auction.

I could definitely be wrong but from what I have seen/reasearched I don't believe that International ever used the 8.3 in any of their lineup. I'm almost certain most of the 4600 on ironplanet and such have the 7.3 navistar engine or a navistar variant.

 

[simp5782]

I could definitely be wrong but from what I have seen/reasearched I don't believe that International ever used the 8.3 in any of their lineup. I'm almost certain most of the 4600 on ironplanet and such have the 7.3 navistar engine or a navistar variant.

Not every 8.3 Is a cummins. The DT530 is a 8.3L and is a direct swap in. Hoses etc. Mounts Transmission etc are all sae 2 and identical.

 

[LCA078]

Just late to the party. 4 sold out of Victoria, TX for 3400ea in November.

Other option is an international 4600 dump truck. Especially those with the 8.3s if you have an a2 truck. Complete parts etc with dump, pto. Allison etc. They sell for around 4 to 5k running at auction.

Dang- Victoria is a hop, skip and jump from me. You're right- that would have been a good deal.

Thanks for the note about International dumps.