Seller Responsibilities

[panshark]

A recent comment by Porkysplace about a person who knows nothing about military vehicles travelling 500 miles to pickup a vehicle of unknown condition from a flipper got me thinking...

As owners, friends of owners and fans of military vehicles, do we hold ourselves to a higher standard of selling than the general public when conducting a vehicle sales transaction? Surely, if we are selling our 1993 Buick skylark in a buyer-beware state, then the buyer can be "beware", and take the car to a mechanic before jumping into the sale, right? But what about if we are selling something a lot bigger and older, like a 1970 5-ton truck?

First off, nothing against those who buy a piece of rolling green history with the intention of reselling it ASAP. A lot of people have bought trucks from Army Surplus shops, MV sales lots etc. Some of these trucks get inspected thoroughly, some do not.

As members of this site and of an inherent fraternity, do we have the integrity to sell a truck that we strongly believe is safe to be driven? Do we feel the responsibility to train the potential buyer on the safe use of the vehicle? As a seller, do we have the guts to say "NO DEAL" when we determine that the person trying to buy our vehicle is NOT CAPABLE of SAFE OPERATION?

For the record, I don't have a beef with anyone about any vehicle sale.

Has anyone here that has sold a military vehicle gone the extra mile of driving the vehicle to the buyer's house, in order to avoid a crash by the newbie on the way home?

 

[dozer1]

I hauled one to the buyers place, but I admit it was more to close the deal and less because I was worried about his driving skills. This guy was fully capable anyway and I could tell that by our phone conversation. If a 16 year old came over with a carload of drunken buddies and had the cash to buy, I would refuse that sale

 

[mkcoen]

The problem with this situation is you have no control over the person (or vehicle) after the sale is complete.

I've looked at and helped recover a lot of deuces in the San Antonio area and have had issues with both vehicles and drivers. While most of these were not my trucks I still felt obligated to tell them whether they were road worthy or not. The only time I inspected a truck and told the buyer specifically DO NOT DRIVE THIS TRUCK he completely ignored me, drove about 2 blocks, then had the truck towed to a crusher.

I also helped someone recover a truck that (and this I did not know until after we slaved it) had NEVER driven a standard transmission vehicle before. Luckily for that one he brought another driver so the recovery went okay but he later leaned to drive a stick with a deuce. Not my 1st choice for a training vehicle.

Yes we need to try and be responsible in our presentation of the hobby but we can not - and should not have to - be responsible for other individuals. I don't want to live in a "nanny state" and I certainly don't want to be anyone else's nanny.

 

[gunboy1656]

If I have to teach someone how to drive a truck I am selling to them, they better expect a $100 added charge for my time, fuel and so on. It is not my responsibility to be a teacher, they should already show up with the knowledge to drive it.

 

[papabear]

You know what? You make some VERY good points and I agree that we all should make sure the buyer is aware of any problems an MV has before selling, that's just good business practice and being honest.

But that's where I would stop...if I were to sell an MV to some untrained individual...which I won't, because I won't sell my MVs.

Having said that:
Should McDonalds stop selling coffee cause that fruit cake burned her lap years ago?

I preach personal responsibility on the part of the buyer.
Personal responsibility on the part of the individual is nearly lost in this country.

I will almost GUARANTEE you that anything you tell that "poor little untrained buyer", show him how to do...or not do...will become grounds for a law suit when the chit hits the fan...and you will be the one named as "responsible".

As someone on here posts frequently, "No good deed goes unpunished"!!

I say it is the BUYERS responsibility to know what he/she is getting and to prepare themselves prior to purchase.

Here would be my sellers pitch:

This is a 1971 Kaiser/Jeep M35A2. Let me show you what I KNOW is wrong with it...see right here? That wheel seal is leaking...not safe to drive, and number one injector is bad and the P/S windshield is cracked. Other than the obvious things I've shown you. you're on your own...sold as is where is for $$$$.

Guess folks getting into something they don't know enough about IS one of my "pet peeves"

 

[mikey]

a fool and his money are soon parted....

i too would not spend the time teaching someone to drive, maintain or repair anything they were buying from me... if you gave them a 20 minute course on how to drive it, would you feel any better about their 200 mile trip home? in this ambulance chasing lawsuit lottery society we live in today, would you then open yourself up to a huge can of worms if you did "teach" them how to drive and they did wreck on the way home?

also, how can anyone selling a deuce have any confidence that it will make a 200 mile trip? these are 40 year old antiques... there are sellers that can tell you with confidence that their deuce will make the trip home... but they have torn down and rebuilt it... and their price is four times that of a flipper...

there are two parties to these transactions and each party bears some responsibility, but lets face it, the majority of the responsibility falls on the buyer... im not condoning underhanded practices, lying or deceit on the sellers behalf... im just saying it is the responsibility of the buyer, not the seller, to educate themselves on the object they are buying...

 

[RAYZER]

When I bought my deuce as a nubi I had only driven one once befor and only for a couple of miles,i jumped in and drove my new toy home 200 miles,of course i had read the manual for safe operation but with a little common sence these things aren't to hard to figure out.i did however check for proper brake function, all fluid levels, tire pressure, light switch function and so on.If I had been the seller, I would perform this inspection myself and required proof of insurance before the truck left my yard,i agree that there is some seller responsibility when it comes to disclosure,but it might be hard to turn down the money.

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

"You can lead a horse to water , but you cannot make him drink ."

'nuff said

 

[wreckerman893]

There's more than one way to skin a cat.....there's just no way to make him like it.

When I sell a vehicle I give the buyer a Bill of Sale that describes the vehicle and states:

"Sold as is, where is. No warrantee expressed or implied.
Buyer assumes all liability with purchase of this vehicle."

 

[paulfarber]

I have no idea why people think M35s are hard to drive. Sure they are standard transmission and manual everything (except brakes).. but left turn, turn the wheel to the left, right turn, turn the wheel to the right.

There are some nuances to a diesel engines... but no real deal breakers. I hopped right in to my CCKW and picked up double clutching in less than 30 minutes.

I also see this from the complete other side of the fence. I don't believe ANYTHING a seller tells me. I've picked over plenty of CCKWs/Jeeps and heard all kinds of stories. You would be surprised on how many jeeps landed on D-Day that are for sale.

As always, BUY THE TRUCK, NOT THE STORY. 'Strong runner', 'good runner' blah blah mean squat.

I also fell that if I were to sell I answer questions honestly.. I also would be honest and say its a 40-70 year MV that has been used in War, Peace, and private hands. There is no way I can possibly know whats 'wrong' with it unless I fixed it.

 

[panshark]

all good replies...I like PB and Paulfarber's approaches: here's what I've identified as being wrong, here's what I've personally fixed. I can see the liability of a training course, but the benefits of a check ride before the purchase allows a seller to know that a green buyer isn't going to swap paint with a schoolbus before leaving the neighborhood. At the risk of a buyer getting a "lil angry" and punching you in the face, I'd refuse sale to someone that I didn't believe was in full mastery of the machine before handing over the keys to the steering wheel padlock.

GL might have the liability issue nailed down right. At the local auction site, no vehicles to be driven off lot. Everything goes trailered or towed.

 

[Varyag]

When I got mine, I was lucky enough to have a good seller that let me stay on his property for about 3 hours PMing the thing. He then helped me fix the Xs.

But yeah, never believe anything you are told and follow the golden rule as much as you can would be my input on this.

 

[86m1028]

Yes we need to try and be responsible in our presentation of the hobby but we can not - and should not have to - be responsible for other individuals. I don't want to live in a "nanny state" and I certainly don't want to be anyone else's nanny.

I think this was very well said.

 

[ranchhopper]

I have sold many trucks so far only a few minor problems the biggest is a 1968 deuce I bobbed for a member here who lives four hours from me. When the truck was done he came here and picked it up and drove it home 50 miles from home he had the rear main seal go out. He called the next day and asked if there was anything I could do that far from home we opted to have the seal fixed at a shop and I paid half the bill and everyone was happy. Heres the problem as I see it with selling these as they come from the auction I drive them like I own them which means I dont beat them who knows how they drive it when they leave. The buyer signs a paper as is where is unless other options are discussed and there is always the option not to buy that particular truck after test driving it.

 

[midcounty]

Some really god answers here, and I go by the buyer having to assume the responsibility to determine if they can safely drive it. My feelings as far as the seller go, they should be honest about what they know of the truck. If I were the seller, I would explain anything I knew of as wrong and anything I have had to fix. Then it would be a bill of sale like Wreckermans.

 

[Coal Cracker]

I'll be one to admit, I was an MV Newb when I bought my M35A2 and drove her home , but I wasn't a newb to Mechanics. I'm an ASE Certified mechanic, and my knowledge extends from locomotives (Steam/Diesel) to classic cars and heavy trucks bus's etc.

I did my research read my Tm's took the correct tools, and picked my truck up with enough know how to take care of whatever came up.

I think there is fine line of laziness/stupidity and a mix of instant gratification that is plaguing our society . I'll admit I did ask questions and I'm glad I was fired at to read the tm's because I've gained the knowledge that was needed to do the recovery safely.

Some people need to ask themselves,,, (Just Because I can, Does It Mean I should?), If you've only driven around a Cavalier or a Focus all of your life, you live in a community association and you have a couple grand to spend and the truck you're buying needs brakes, the trans is falling out, and there's no title, maybe you ought to stick to the Cavalier or Focus because AAA is not going to tow it for you when the heavy tank towbar you hooked to the trunklid of the cavalier tore off, you own no tools, and had no clue that you need to title a vehicle.

If you think you fit into this class of person, you ought to stick with the MV models listed on Ebay.


I feel better now!!

 

[ranchhopper]

I had a guy I test drove a truck with he wanted the deuce really bad but I didnt sell it to him when he kept trying to take off in third gear and waited until the last minute to apply some brake to stop in traffic the cash he was willing to pay would have paid a lot of bills but the liability scared the h*ll out of me.

 

[Flyingvan911]

Driving a deuce is easy but requires above average common sense and maturity. I drove 18-wheelers for a little while and did a thorough check of my deuce with a friend who has deuce experience. He rode with me and we had a chase van with tools and then a back up plan beyond that.

A seller should fully disclose the condition of an MV good or bad to a potential customer. He/she should not hesitate to say no-sale if they think something's wrong with the truck or the buyer.

 

[ranchhopper]

My word to people who ask me "do you think it will make it home" my reply is usually its a fourty year old truck that in many cases had a rough life its a crap shoot I wouldnt intentionally sell a truck to a person if I thought they would have trouble with it.

 

[AGE|kshaufl]

I will make a quick comment to this thread.

In most states the Buyer Beware / As Is clause only applies to the mechanical functionality of the vehicle, not the safety of the vehicle. If there are known safety issues to the vehicle it is the sellers responsibility to advise the buyer. If you knowingly sell an unsafe vehicle and allow the new buyer to drive the vehicle home without advising them of the problem, you open yourself up to a lawsuit. If is all about C.Y.A.

So, if you sell a vehicle with leaking brake lines, no brake pads, leaking wheel cylinders, or a leaking air system, make sure you let the buyer know. If they still choose to drive it off of the property and kill someone it is on them not you.

Besides wouldn't you just feel better?