VincenT
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Separate 12 volt system
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Boelt63A
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I don't claim to know everything but I can give you some advice.
My point here is that there is more than one way to skin a cat...
Pick what suits you best.
Chuck
My point here is that there is more than one way to skin a cat...
Pick what suits you best.
Chuck
devilman96
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Vence...
There are a few ways to go with what you want to do.. When I wired Chucks 710 I basicly made the ign switch control both the 12V supply and the power going to the transformer... This keeps the system working like a normal charging system should and turns the accessories on and off with the switch... Only down side is that the pinz doesnt have a accessory spot on the ign switch so there would have to be a toggle if you wanted to make it avaliable.
I could draw a diagram for this but I dont have a service manual anymore... If you want to get a good copy of the wiring diagram to me I can draw it out for you pretty quickly.
I would like to.... but can not build a alt kit right now... I have to many oblogations with the store but I can say there are better ways of doing less work using a Kubota mag unit on the truck than a 12 alternator, not to mention its more suited to the application and 1/3 the size with a remotely mounted regulator and much simpler bracket. You will only get 30 amps from it but its brushless and will last forever so unless you have some big arse radio system going in you would be fine...
Like Chuck said if I can help let me know...
There are a few ways to go with what you want to do.. When I wired Chucks 710 I basicly made the ign switch control both the 12V supply and the power going to the transformer... This keeps the system working like a normal charging system should and turns the accessories on and off with the switch... Only down side is that the pinz doesnt have a accessory spot on the ign switch so there would have to be a toggle if you wanted to make it avaliable.
I could draw a diagram for this but I dont have a service manual anymore... If you want to get a good copy of the wiring diagram to me I can draw it out for you pretty quickly.
I would like to.... but can not build a alt kit right now... I have to many oblogations with the store but I can say there are better ways of doing less work using a Kubota mag unit on the truck than a 12 alternator, not to mention its more suited to the application and 1/3 the size with a remotely mounted regulator and much simpler bracket. You will only get 30 amps from it but its brushless and will last forever so unless you have some big arse radio system going in you would be fine...
Like Chuck said if I can help let me know...
Tx75Pinz
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Hello, new to this forum, could you expand on the "Kubota mag unit", or is that information posted elsewhere here? I have a 710M and am looking for more 12 v options. Thanks
Boelt63A
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Mike is talking about a magneto. It's how aircraft generate electricity to fire the plugs in a piston aircraft. Smaller lighter and more efficient than a generator or alternator.
Chuck
Chuck
devilman96
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Kubota uses a mag unit on their small (2-cyl) diesel engines (500-600 series) which prefect for installing on an application like this where you need DC power but don't need the power of a regular alternator (IE your not running a whole car).
What makes it suited to this application is it size as the OD is less than 4" in diameter and the depth of the unit less than 3.5 inches... The front pulley is adjustable to width so the 1/2 belt on the Pinz is not an issue. Also the voltage reg is a separate solid state unit which you can mount else where in the truck.
They are not listed elsewhere that I am aware of, this is another one of those things I will get to one of these days and get listed as a kit available for them... I've just got a lot of other kits to get done first...
What makes it suited to this application is it size as the OD is less than 4" in diameter and the depth of the unit less than 3.5 inches... The front pulley is adjustable to width so the 1/2 belt on the Pinz is not an issue. Also the voltage reg is a separate solid state unit which you can mount else where in the truck.
They are not listed elsewhere that I am aware of, this is another one of those things I will get to one of these days and get listed as a kit available for them... I've just got a lot of other kits to get done first...
Tx75Pinz
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Whoa, that sounds like are really neat idea! And the magneto will generate 12V, or does it need to be reduced somehow? It seems like it should be fairly straight forward once you got it inside the engine compartment to run the 12v to a fuse block and then feed the accessories. How many amps will a set up like this generate? Thanks.
devilman96
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30 amps . . . Mounting is much easier due to the size of the unit.
They work on a 4 wire system. You have 2 wires from the alternator which generate AC voltage , these are run to the inverter / regulator which has two more wires, trigger and output. trigger goes to a relay controled by the ign circuit and output goes to the battery. . . .
Its a little more redundant than the transformer route as you have 2 power systems independent from each other. If you loose your 24 you still have 12 to limp around with as compaired to the transformer where you are dependant on the 24 system.
There are a million arguments for these methods and it really just comes down to what each owner is more comfortable with in his own truck.
I will try and remember to grab some pics of the unit I am speaking of monday but like Chuck said don't wait around on me . . . i'ma busy boy right now!!!!
They work on a 4 wire system. You have 2 wires from the alternator which generate AC voltage , these are run to the inverter / regulator which has two more wires, trigger and output. trigger goes to a relay controled by the ign circuit and output goes to the battery. . . .
Its a little more redundant than the transformer route as you have 2 power systems independent from each other. If you loose your 24 you still have 12 to limp around with as compaired to the transformer where you are dependant on the 24 system.
There are a million arguments for these methods and it really just comes down to what each owner is more comfortable with in his own truck.
I will try and remember to grab some pics of the unit I am speaking of monday but like Chuck said don't wait around on me . . . i'ma busy boy right now!!!!
Tx75Pinz
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I appreciate the info. If, and when, you have time, I'd sure like to see pics of the unit and get more information about how to install it. I've had enough minor electrical problems on my Pinz that I really hesitate to add another converter or more stuff to drain the batteries. This idea sounds like more of a viable alternative.
Thanks again!
Thanks again!
eminn57360
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FWIW.
for all your 12v needs just keep it simple and go with a 24v to 12v converter, 27.5amp astrodyne unit runs about $135 or so, if you need more power get another converter, lots of pinz owners run multiple converters, I have 1 converter and 1 battery equalizer with a 20amp tap, as a new bonus I had a alternator rebuilt for 50.5 amps, cost me $150.00 plus another $100.00 in misc. parts for the install, now my batteries top off quickly and I have tons of reserve for a future winch or running my huge 24volt compressor.
Can provide spme pics and lists of needed parts for dong the alternator rebuild just ask.
for all your 12v needs just keep it simple and go with a 24v to 12v converter, 27.5amp astrodyne unit runs about $135 or so, if you need more power get another converter, lots of pinz owners run multiple converters, I have 1 converter and 1 battery equalizer with a 20amp tap, as a new bonus I had a alternator rebuilt for 50.5 amps, cost me $150.00 plus another $100.00 in misc. parts for the install, now my batteries top off quickly and I have tons of reserve for a future winch or running my huge 24volt compressor.
Can provide spme pics and lists of needed parts for dong the alternator rebuild just ask.
MOGSTER
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My MOG runs just fine on the freeways I have past many pinz.I also ran a wire off of one battery for my 12v CB .drove the MOG from san diego to LA and back on I-5 many times .it was my daily driver for 5years.drove it from the land of the fruits and nuts to real people land VA in febuary with no door windows .cost one tire, water pump(so that is what the grease fitting is for),and a wide flat buttttttt.mogs have a wounderful summer heater and great winter A/C.as for 12v alt. put a chevy single wire one on.oil cooler and fan fit great under the cargo bed.
devilman96
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Ha... funny to see this thread pop up again today... I just spent most of the evening wiring in the magneto I ws speaking of earlyer on into Chuckles 712... Man im whooped... Will get some pics up tomorrow...
Boelt63A
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Some pics of the 12V magneto set up on the 712. This isn't the finished product as there is only one attatchnebt point.
I'll get some more pictures up tonight of the final install.
Over 1000 miles on this set up so far without any problems
![[thumbzup]](https://www.steelsoldiers.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_thumzup.gif "Thumbs Up [thumbzup]")
Chuck
I'll get some more pictures up tonight of the final install.
Over 1000 miles on this set up so far without any problems
Chuck
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devilman96
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Oops im a bad MV'er some times... Sorry Wayne and everyone else whom has been waiting..
The wiring diagram is attached as a PDF...
The wiring diagram is attached as a PDF...
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jeli
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Wouldn't it be simpler to use an alternator with intergral regulator like most GM units? They use a single positive wire to the battery. I do like the relay to turn 12v accy's on.
devilman96
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Sure... Find me one under 3 inches in diameter and less than 3 inches deep with the pulley and it will fit...
Tx75Pinz
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Neat stuff! Just to be sure I understand; this system is to provide electricity to an extra 12 v battery in the Pinz, and will provide up to 30 amps of current for 12 v goodies. Am I right so far? What is the shield cable for in most of the pics that looks like it is coming out of the distributor? Will the installation of this system necessitate a longer fan belt? To run the 12 v goodies you would come off the extra battery to a fuse box or termainal strip correct? Enough for now. I like this set up. Regards, Andy
Boelt63A
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Mag
You are correct in everything you said.
The shielded cables are leftovers from the civi conversion.
I have a single separate Red Top in the tool box that has it's own set of circuit breakers for the radioes, cell phone chargers etc... A longer fan belt is necessary but keep the standard one around in case your 12 volt system takes a dump. D Man used a NAPA 9430 belt. We haven't changed anything on the 24 volt system at all, and you can put the original belt on and not drive the magneto at all.
This goes along with his mantra that all the bells and whistles on the truck can crap out on you and you still have a drivable machine. Important stuff when the chips are down.(Like with a Cat 5 storm heading your way)
Chuck
You are correct in everything you said.
The shielded cables are leftovers from the civi conversion.
I have a single separate Red Top in the tool box that has it's own set of circuit breakers for the radioes, cell phone chargers etc... A longer fan belt is necessary but keep the standard one around in case your 12 volt system takes a dump. D Man used a NAPA 9430 belt. We haven't changed anything on the 24 volt system at all, and you can put the original belt on and not drive the magneto at all.
This goes along with his mantra that all the bells and whistles on the truck can crap out on you and you still have a drivable machine. Important stuff when the chips are down.(Like with a Cat 5 storm heading your way)
Chuck
Tx75Pinz
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RE: Mag
When devilman gets a chance to come up for air and gets a kit together I want one. I'd have to clean out my tool box but I can add storage inside the bed if need be. It's not like I really need chanis 24/7 for all 4 tires here in SW Texas. Kudos to you and Devilman for a really neat idea. If you have more pics post 'em please.
Andy
When devilman gets a chance to come up for air and gets a kit together I want one. I'd have to clean out my tool box but I can add storage inside the bed if need be. It's not like I really need chanis 24/7 for all 4 tires here in SW Texas. Kudos to you and Devilman for a really neat idea. If you have more pics post 'em please.
Andy
devilman96
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RE: Mag
To elaborate on what Chuck said you install a 43 inch belt on the truck but can still yank it right off and toss on a stock belt with out pulling the mag off the engiine. Kinda nice if the mag fails (which is REALLY rare)... and again the 24V is unmodified leaving the vehicles primary systems fully intacked if the 12V dies. Also the 12V is not dependant on the 24V system for power like a step down converter uses, not that its a huge issue running a step down but they do draw power and require a relay set up to keep pluged in all of the time.
I like to think in the area of... "If a toy fails the vehicle still preforms." Maybe its paranoia, maybe its old school I dont know but being redundant is nice. In addition to this if your 24V was to fail or go dead you can usually jump yourself off of a single 12V battery and could pull a line from the 12V if the 24V failed. You would have some dim lights but dim lights are better than no lights at all. Even on my overly mod'ed deuce I've kept it like this...
Im kinda doubtful I will do a kit on this. Chuck has the only bracket and truck I can use to replicate the parts and were on opposite ends of the state from each other. It woulldnt be a cheap venture ether, prolly around 400$. Also the hole location you see being drilled and tapped in the pics goes directly into a oil journal, if you screw up doing it... Guess what!!! Im not saying no to the idea of putting them up for sale, it's just not so easy and I would like to see Chuck get some more hours on his.
At the same time I can / will / would be happy to draw out a diagram for the first system I did in his 710 using the solar widget converter which allowed for radio memory and worked off of the ign switch using a relay. Its less involved and does work flawlessly, will give you 12V and doesnt require modifying your stock 24V system. If anyone is horriably turned off by doing wiring I might be presuaded to build some harnesses for them.
To elaborate on what Chuck said you install a 43 inch belt on the truck but can still yank it right off and toss on a stock belt with out pulling the mag off the engiine. Kinda nice if the mag fails (which is REALLY rare)... and again the 24V is unmodified leaving the vehicles primary systems fully intacked if the 12V dies. Also the 12V is not dependant on the 24V system for power like a step down converter uses, not that its a huge issue running a step down but they do draw power and require a relay set up to keep pluged in all of the time.
I like to think in the area of... "If a toy fails the vehicle still preforms." Maybe its paranoia, maybe its old school I dont know but being redundant is nice. In addition to this if your 24V was to fail or go dead you can usually jump yourself off of a single 12V battery and could pull a line from the 12V if the 24V failed. You would have some dim lights but dim lights are better than no lights at all. Even on my overly mod'ed deuce I've kept it like this...
Im kinda doubtful I will do a kit on this. Chuck has the only bracket and truck I can use to replicate the parts and were on opposite ends of the state from each other. It woulldnt be a cheap venture ether, prolly around 400$. Also the hole location you see being drilled and tapped in the pics goes directly into a oil journal, if you screw up doing it... Guess what!!! Im not saying no to the idea of putting them up for sale, it's just not so easy and I would like to see Chuck get some more hours on his.
At the same time I can / will / would be happy to draw out a diagram for the first system I did in his 710 using the solar widget converter which allowed for radio memory and worked off of the ign switch using a relay. Its less involved and does work flawlessly, will give you 12V and doesnt require modifying your stock 24V system. If anyone is horriably turned off by doing wiring I might be presuaded to build some harnesses for them.