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SHC35 and SHC60 Battery

Third From Texas

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Checked....Using a resistor. heater pads not hooked up either. suggestions?
Well you might move the batteries in where it's warmer in the meantime. I don't know your application here.

I'm likely not the best to answer, though. I recreated the OEM setup with a temp sensor and heating element. But honestly, I don't know that I've ever run the unit below 32 degrees. Mine could very well fail at your temps, I've never run the unit in at the temps you are experiencing. It's like 65 outside right now.
 

torp5061

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Well you might move the batteries in where it's warmer in the meantime. I don't know your application here.

I'm likely not the best to answer, though. I recreated the OEM setup with a temp sensor and heating element. But honestly, I don't know that I've ever run the unit below 32 degrees. Mine could very well fail at your temps, I've never run the unit in at the temps you are experiencing. It's like 65 outside right now.
what did you use for a temp sensor?
 

ZiggyO

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Checked....Using a resistor. heater pads not hooked up either. suggestions?
When operating with a stock battery, there is a sensor (variable resistor) which feeds back info on battery temp to the control board-- at a certain threshold, it tells the control board to close the relay for heating element power thereby heating the battery pack. The control board looks at the relationship between the incoming resistance value and the heating element relay status-- if it sees a mismatch (i.e. resistance value indicated no heating needed yet heating relay is closed) you will get an error code. The relays in the shc control boards are notorious for sticking-- I think what is happening here is the heating element relay is cycling and remaining on. After a while, the ecu sees the mismatch and triggers the code.

Using a fixed value resistor, in this case providing a feedback value for "no heat required", will have no effect on operation other than to tell the ecu that the battery heating element is not needed. It has no other correlation with any temperature sensing. In other words, the heater has no way to compare the temperature read by the sensor on the control head with the battery temp sensor, or the overtemp sensor on the body of the TEG.

I am willing to bet that if you check your heating element relay, you will find that the relay remains in the closed position after startup. In short, your ecu is being told that the heating element is not needed, yet it is seeing the relay status as "on", and essentially saying "what the he** is going on.

I should also add that the ecu cannot tell if the heating element is attached or not-- it can only see that the relay itself is closed and sending power down the line towards it.
 

ZiggyO

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Adding one more thing--- the relays can be fairly easily replaced if you are good with a soldering iron. Otherwise, the heating element power relay can be removed, but this comes with a caveat--- if you remove the relay, you can only ever plug in an adapter with a fixed resistance value below the trigger threshold. Using a stock battery or variable resistance temp sensor would again put you in the same boat.
 

torp5061

New member
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South Dakota
When operating with a stock battery, there is a sensor (variable resistor) which feeds back info on battery temp to the control board-- at a certain threshold, it tells the control board to close the relay for heating element power thereby heating the battery pack. The control board looks at the relationship between the incoming resistance value and the heating element relay status-- if it sees a mismatch (i.e. resistance value indicated no heating needed yet heating relay is closed) you will get an error code. The relays in the shc control boards are notorious for sticking-- I think what is happening here is the heating element relay is cycling and remaining on. After a while, the ecu sees the mismatch and triggers the code.

Using a fixed value resistor, in this case providing a feedback value for "no heat required", will have no effect on operation other than to tell the ecu that the battery heating element is not needed. It has no other correlation with any temperature sensing. In other words, the heater has no way to compare the temperature read by the sensor on the control head with the battery temp sensor, or the overtemp sensor on the body of the TEG.

I am willing to bet that if you check your heating element relay, you will find that the relay remains in the closed position after startup. In short, your ecu is being told that the heating element is not needed, yet it is seeing the relay status as "on", and essentially saying "what the he** is going on.

I should also add that the ecu cannot tell if the heating element is attached or not-- it can only see that the relay itself is closed and sending power down the line towards it.
Many thanks Ziggy. I downloaded the manual. I will check the relay. Still have not seen battery charging. I will check TEG output next run.
 

ZiggyO

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Many thanks Ziggy. I downloaded the manual. I will check the relay. Still have not seen battery charging. I will check TEG output next run.
To test the TEG output, the heater has to be running, and not in its startup sequence. Probe the connectors coming out of the TEG to see if there is a voltage rise (I have seen as high as 30 volts right out of the TEG)-- don't worry as it is regulated downstream by the control module. It can vary though-- from battery voltage on up--- remember that the TEG generates proportionally to its core temperature.

IMPORTANT: do not disconnect the TEG when running-- it can cause a voltage spike in excess of 60 volts which will fry circuits. Ask me how I know........

Also, do not disconnect the battery when the heater is running. A few years back I had a long discussion with one of the HDT product techs about this-- they told me that the system "should" be able to handle the spike generated when doing so (but they cannot guarantee it wont do something electrically)-- but their scenario was guys in the field using a pack to start the unit then swapping over to a dead pack to charge. Since we are not working with limitless budgets, prudence is the better part of valor.


Also, to do the tests, you need to have the top shroud off during testing-- be sure to watch that the components near the combustion chamber do not get too hot as now there is no cross ventilation.
 

ZiggyO

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able to test today...Only 5 volts after 25 min
You are probing right at the terminals coming out of the TEG? If not, and you are checking past any relays, they could be the problem. If so, then that sounds like the TEG might have given up the ghost. With the heater off, you can try unscrewing the terminals and cleaning the connections between the wiring and the TEG. If that doesn't fix the issue, then you may have to relegate it to a parts unit........

Is there any evidence that the heater may have been dropped? The TEG has a small internal ceramic component that does not like sudden shock forces.

Z
 

torp5061

New member
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7
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Location
South Dakota
You are probing right at the terminals coming out of the TEG? If not, and you are checking past any relays, they could be the problem. If so, then that sounds like the TEG might have given up the ghost. With the heater off, you can try unscrewing the terminals and cleaning the connections between the wiring and the TEG. If that doesn't fix the issue, then you may have to relegate it to a parts unit........

Is there any evidence that the heater may have been dropped? The TEG has a small internal ceramic component that does not like sudden shock forces.

Z
no evidence of dropping...hit the right terminals. I'll try cleaning. Did see the meter is working under 700 hours. May have to convert to a plug in. I'll start to figure out how to make it work.
 

torp5061

New member
23
7
3
Location
South Dakota
To test the TEG output, the heater has to be running, and not in its startup sequence. Probe the connectors coming out of the TEG to see if there is a voltage rise (I have seen as high as 30 volts right out of the TEG)-- don't worry as it is regulated downstream by the control module. It can vary though-- from battery voltage on up--- remember that the TEG generates proportionally to its core temperature.

IMPORTANT: do not disconnect the TEG when running-- it can cause a voltage spike in excess of 60 volts which will fry circuits. Ask me how I know........

Also, do not disconnect the battery when the heater is running. A few years back I had a long discussion with one of the HDT product techs about this-- they told me that the system "should" be able to handle the spike generated when doing so (but they cannot guarantee it wont do something electrically)-- but their scenario was guys in the field using a pack to start the unit then swapping over to a dead pack to charge. Since we are not working with limitless budgets, prudence is the better part of valor.


Also, to do the tests, you need to have the top shroud off during testing-- be sure to watch that the components near the combustion chamber do not get too hot as now there is no cross ventilation.
Well...Looks like I may have shorted the board. What did you do when you fried the circuits?
 

ZiggyO

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Well...Looks like I may have shorted the board. What did you do when you fried the circuits?
I disconnected the TEG with the heater running and when I reconnected (still running), the voltage had already risen substantially--- it arced right as I connected it (probably due to it putting nearly double the operating voltage through the board) and then bricked itself. I still mentally kick myself when I think about it-- I should have known better.
 

torp5061

New member
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7
3
Location
South Dakota
I disconnected the TEG with the heater running and when I reconnected (still running), the voltage had already risen substantially--- it arced right as I connected it (probably due to it putting nearly double the operating voltage through the board) and then bricked itself. I still mentally kick myself when I think about it-- I should have known better.
Looks like I’m gonna have to track down a spare computer board. This is truly turned into a science experiment.
 

rolling18

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Portland, OR
Hey Ziggy...Any idea where I can track down a couple of fuel cans for the heater? Thanks!!
Sorry I am not Ziggy but fuel cans are hard to come by for some reason they're set up like gold on eBay I saw five of them on government liquidators going up for sale today if you can find them they're going to be around a hundred bucks each! Not to mention shipping costs What a rip off
 

ZiggyO

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They are standard scepter mfc's--- there are a few guys on here that have them available.

Z
 

rolling18

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Location
Portland, OR
What you need are the special fuel caps that have the right fittings in them the kit comes with two if you get the full kit mine does anyway
 
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