Shifting techniques of experienced Deuce Drivers

[Floridianson]

Let's get one thing straight I never said floating the gears are better. Definitely steering wheel holders should not try this. I said I can float gears if I wanted to. What I did say and standby is you do not push the clutch all the way to the floor when you're moving. When I said I just bump the clutch I am talking half way down not all the way down. The clutch brake is only used when we're stopped trying to get in first gear or reverse. You can wear it out or do damage to it. Yes I've driven cross country for US Express and my own my new GMC triaxle dump truck in the '80s.
Cattlerepairman may be you and "anyone" else should watch and read this bottom video about how to kill a clutch brake. The Eaton video that was posted said nothing about the clutch brake
Also we do not use the clutch when splitting a gear just let off the throttle. Another one by Eaton that talks about clutch brake for real. Do not use clutch brake when moving. Not a myth or a lie just google youtube lot of drivers can do it without doing any damage.


Eaton Fuller heavy-duty transmissions driver instructions (TRDR0670)

 

[NY Tom]

For me it depends on the deuce transmission in the truck. Each one seems to be different and prefer different fluids.
What seems to work in one might not work in another.
Typically we are not dealing with perfectly maintained or freshly rebuilt units.

If I am loaded I will run Low range 2-4 and then shift to high 3 and continue from there. Seems to work for me.
I use the clutch every time and do not typically double clutch.
I downshift for lights 5 to 4 and 4 to 3. Generally I do not downshift into 2 unless I am moving very slowly.

My trans has trouble with 2 and 4 synchros I think. One day I may rebuild the thing.

It also works best with 50W non-synthetic oil. I tried synthetic and it did not like it. 90W grinds more when cold.

Also when the weather/transmission is cold and the oil is thicker I have trouble getting into 4 on upshift and into 2 or 4 on downshift. Usually after the morning "grind" the transmission runs better. I drive accordingly.

Take your time and find out what works best for you and your truck. Have fun.

 

[chucky]

So your saying you were a "professional" truck driver , right ?
Well I worked at IHC in Tukwilla WA. Then after they went bankrupt at other truck shops until working at the transit department. I'm an "ASE Certified Master Mechanic' or was until I retired.
I was also a Sargeant in the U.S. Marine Corp. I was trained at Fort Knox on Tanks, than later on the Deuce and 5 ton trucks. Never was I taught to "float the gears" .
I spent a lot of time test driving trucks, I never said I was a professional though. I do know what drivers
have told me and I do know what the manufacturer says to do .

You "never" mentioned going to the EATON website. Afraid of what you'll see ?

You spent time with your father, that's great. But your father was not operating the truck properly if he never used the clutch. You cannot blame him though as they didn't have the schools back then. So you learned to drive from your father then. You didn't go to a Commercial driving school. If you had, then you would have learned to drive correctly. Sorry but that's just the truth.
As far as the costs I quoted that was for "parts" not total costs. I'm also aware costs have gone up greatly since I left the industry.
I was factory trained at "Allison" on the AT500, MT600 and HT700 transmissions. Then later on the "New World" series of transmissions.
I have also rebuilt "RoadRanger" transmissions, have you ?
It took on average three days to rebuild one. I can rebuild an "Allison" in a day.
All your ranting about "I don't know what I'm talking about" is really useless chatter. Unless you provide proof of your "opinion" it means nothing.
I've provided proof .
Now you provide some proof or quite wasting my time.

LOL I feel like im trying to teach RAINMAN how to shift ! I know this is going to be hard for you to grasp but but there was a time before the internet came along that the whole world just seemed to absorb and learn to do things and not have their hand held for the first 30 years of their lives ! Trades were taught to the younger by the older in every field known to man and this country was strong and we made things and hey get this we carried things cross country with just an address in our hands and nothing else not a cell phone not a gps just a 50 page paper map and lo and behold the stuff made it to its destination ! Try that today with all of our internet children ( I like to refer to them as todays victims) They think everything printed on the net as the gospel and google is the all knowing super power in the heavens and you cant tell them otherwise you cant show them ! To the point where we are today we have to insulate our companies from the the window lickers on the short busses now are grown and have to be told and shown hey the coffee is hot it might burn you/ dont pour it on your head has to be printed on the cup for todays generation so they will have a more difficult time placing lawsuits against us ! We have to dumb everything down for the idiots so every manufacture has to dumb down their instruction on how to operate their product so idiots may be able to fumble their way thru its process ! If you can not read between the lines and listen to the folks that have been there done that ! you are unreachable so for you and the other window lickers u just keep double clutching cause the website said so and you probably wouldnt have ever figured it out anyways ! So its time for you to go watch judge judy !

 

[Redleg130]

The CONSENSUS is that the Deuce transmission is a standard synchronized transmission and should be driven as such, clutch for every gear change.

Yes, this is what I am hoping to focus on, specific guidance for a person new to the M35a2 wanting to drive their truck in the best possible way, specifically minimizing damage done and improving longevity.

I use the clutch every time and do not typically double clutch.

I downshift for lights 5 to 4 and 4 to 3. Generally I do not downshift into 2 unless I am moving very slowly.

This is what I am finding works best for my skill level and truck - I feel much better hitting the gears correctly after some acceleration/deacceleration practice on long country roads. Double clutching does not seem required if you have the hang of things, but it was helpful I think in the beginning of my driving as it seemed more forgiving of misses and fumbling about.

I also found the same, 3rd gear seems sufficiently slow to stop from, trying to go to second either lurches the truck (because I do it too soon/going too fast) or I am at the place to stop already and never quite make it to 2nd anyway. I am much more comfortable with downshifting now, I think the lurching part (going to fast for the gear downshifted to) scared me off initially.

 

[G744]

All Spicer 3053 trans are quirky, and most are in the 'can't find it, grind it ' club.

Never seen two act the same, and all of them have a 4-5 shift 'notch'.

Funny tho, the 3052 as found in the gassers are smoother, prolly 'cause of the way Spicer made the multifuel trans a 5th over with that goofy top shaft arrangement.

Keep in mind, an 'ancient' tactical may have a many as 20K on the clock, nowhere near the same as a OTR rig.

Learning to shift an M35A2 is putting up with what it does each time you drive it.

 

[NY Tom]

Yes, this is what I am hoping to focus on, specific guidance for a person new to the M35a2 wanting to drive their truck in the best possible way, specifically minimizing damage done and improving longevity.




This is what I am finding works best for my skill level and truck - I feel much better hitting the gears correctly after some acceleration/deacceleration practice on long country roads. Double clutching does not seem required if you have the hang of things, but it was helpful I think in the beginning of my driving as it seemed more forgiving of misses and fumbling about.

I also found the same, 3rd gear seems sufficiently slow to stop from, trying to go to second either lurches the truck (because I do it too soon/going too fast) or I am at the place to stop already and never quite make it to 2nd anyway. I am much more comfortable with downshifting now, I think the lurching part (going to fast for the gear downshifted to) scared me off initially.

It takes a bit of time to get the hang of winding up the motor to match the revs on the downshift. I drive a manual on my daily but the revs come up so much slower on the deuce it can be challenging to get it right. I apply some stick pressure and as I rev it up I can usually get it to go in nicely.

G744 above makes a good point above about the low mileage on these trucks. But I feel that in most trucks those low miles are hard miles. I found some gear teeth pieces when I changed the oil on the trans the first time. Pretty sure that they are from first or reverse but who knows? Still running.

Oddly enough I drove about 120,000 miles on a 2007 FJ Cruiser 6 speed. When I later upgraded to the 2012 model year they had changed the throttle from cable to fly by wire and it just does not react the same. Very hard to get the throttle to blip correctly on the downshift. 269,000 miles later I am still getting used to it lol. So yeah everything is different.

 

[Charlie175]

I never think much shifting....it just happens. If I think about it too much, then I don't do it right...

 

[cattlerepairman]

Let's get one thing straight I never said floating the gears are better. I said I can float gears if I wanted to. What I did say and standby is you do not push the clutch all the way to the floor when you're moving. When I said I just bump the clutch I am talking half way down not all the way down. The clutch brake is only used when we're stopped trying to get in first gear or reverse. You can wear it out or do damage to it. Yes I've driven cross country for US Express and my own my new GMC triaxle dump truck in the '80s.
Cattlerepairman may be you and "anyone" else should watch and read this bottom video about how to kill a clutch brake. The Eaton video that was posted said nothing about the clutch brake
Also we do not use the clutch when splitting a gear just let off the throttle. Another one by Eaton that talks about clutch brake for real. Do not use clutch brake when moving.


Eaton Fuller heavy-duty transmissions driver instructions (TRDR0670)
What Is A Clutch Brake? - Truckers Logic

Not sure where the disagreement comes from; I agree with @Floridianson on all clutch brake points; I am not aware I said anything about how far to depress the clutch; even when double clutching you do not go all the way in but do as @Floridianson described. Clutch brake is for slowing the transmission shaft when the truck is stopped so that you can get a gear in more easily. It is not needed while the truck is moving.

 

[Floridianson]

Not sure where the disagreement comes from; I agree with @Floridianson on all clutch brake points; I am not aware I said anything about how far to depress the clutch; even when double clutching you do not go all the way in but do as @Floridianson described. Clutch brake is for slowing the transmission shaft when the truck is stopped so that you can get a gear in more easily. It is not needed while the truck is moving.

Thank you. Yeah I cut my teeth with that triaxle making deliveries from the quarry of up to 17 tons upshifting and downshifting all day long in Northern Virginia the beltway Washington and Maryland. Then when I went over the road with US Express it was kind of nice to be able to stretch it out put it in gear and leave it there till I hit the weigh station the pit stop for fuel or reach my destination. Bad thing about over the road you're never home good thing about local deliveries I was home every night.

 

[Floridianson]

On a heavily laden deuce or on a start on a grade, I put the main transmission in second and drop the transfer to low. Next shift is transfer to high, then 3-4-5 in high. Works best for me.

Well I did say all 809 series I started in second low and then went to second high but that was not the truth. The 816 wrecker was way too heavy so it was starting second low run through all the gears and high fourth and fifth high or she fall flat on her face. I don't use first low gear in a deuce or the 809 series unless I'm on real soft ground. Then just light throttle until I walk her out of the soft spot and get back on firm ground. I only use first if I'm using the winch in low retrieve. Tighten up the cable with it out of gear once the cable is tight put it in first low range let the clutch out easy and the winch and tires turning slow hopefully walk out of whatever I'm stuck in.