Should it be mandatory that new owners read the -10 manual before they take delivery??????????

[DREDnot]

For me, Ive been collecting and reading Factory Service Manuals, Owners Manuals, and military manuals for 40+ years.

As much information is in there to absorb, I only gain a true understanding when I have the vehicle sitting there in front of me.

I need the context of the vehicle to reference.

But, you better have a copy of the -10 on the back of the toilet a few weeks before you get your truck.

 

[Hammer]

I have to ASSuME that the "dead around here" could be from vacation season. Even though everybody has been on government imposed vacation for about 16 months.

Actually, this is reflecting back to a couple years ago when many here went far overboard with how things got handled, and a LOT of members pretty much stopped coming to SS because of how they were treated.
The result is that the amount of posts and information here has dropped dramatically.
I know I only came back a few times a year to find specific information, TMs, or to contact someone specifically.
Compared to being on this site almost every day, and a lot of those for extended periods of time!

Honestly, the TMs are GOLD!
But, until you get new members to fully understand this, coming off with 'Did you read the TM's', you basically just piss off new members.
I know it's more work, but it also enriches these posts, if you post with 'If you read the TM, on TM xxx-xxx-xx you will find the section for troubleshooting xxx'. Now THAT is very useful information to search on, and encourages new members to actually USE the TMs.
It isn't what you say, it's how you say it.
If you get emotional about people, then don't post rude comments to them.
And yes, I know it's frustrating with the exact same questions being asked over, and over, and over, ad nauseam...
But you don't add anything to this site saying 'search the TMs'.
Either be quite, or answer with at least the TM and section, etc. for them to find the answer.
And remember, those TMs may be gold, but a lot of that is still based on everything being military based (i.e. funding, soldier A, B, C, etc. ) Many people want to know how to do this as a civilian without those resources.

 

[Milcommoguy]

The -10 is the operator’s manual. It tells you how to use things and how it works. I bet more than half of HMMWV owners don’t know how to turn on the emergency flashers. They would if they read the -10. Lol

GOLLY Sgt. It has an emergency flasher???


The things one can learn on this site. CAMO

 

[JD4044M]

I know how to turn on my 4/Way Flashers inside my M1078 but haven't a need for them yet along the side of the road!

 

[Milcommoguy]

Actually, this is reflecting back to a couple years ago when many here went far overboard with how things got handled, and a LOT of members pretty much stopped coming to SS because of how they were treated.
The result is that the amount of posts and information here has dropped dramatically.
I know I only came back a few times a year to find specific information, TMs, or to contact someone specifically.
Compared to being on this site almost every day, and a lot of those for extended periods of time!

Honestly, the TMs are GOLD!
But, until you get new members to fully understand this, coming off with 'Did you read the TM's', you basically just piss off new members.
I know it's more work, but it also enriches these posts, if you post with 'If you read the TM, on TM xxx-xxx-xx you will find the section for troubleshooting xxx'. Now THAT is very useful information to search on, and encourages new members to actually USE the TMs.
It isn't what you say, it's how you say it.
If you get emotional about people, then don't post rude comments to them.
And yes, I know it's frustrating with the exact same questions being asked over, and over, and over, ad nauseam...
But you don't add anything to this site saying 'search the TMs'.
Either be quite, or answer with at least the TM and section, etc. for them to find the answer.
And remember, those TMs may be gold, but a lot of that is still based on everything being military based (i.e. funding, soldier A, B, C, etc. ) Many people want to know how to do this as a civilian without those resources.

YES, they are gold. All the info is right before one eyes. Written at a sixth grade level. I think what we are seeing is some needing help, as in HELP throw me a life ring. OK, that's nice. One gets so many tosses and then stay out of the deep end or try to wade your way thru the TM's.

The Steel Soilders life guards at your service. PAPAKB Just blew the whistle a little.

If HumV's were easy everybody would have one ... Opps, seems were going in that direction with lots of sales = more question.

That's not meant to be mean spirited. More of an funny EYE opener. I am sure we could share a lot of info at the shop, club house or pizza shack and have fun too. Internet words carry a little weight , cuz we can't see the face of confusion. See Gomer Pyle above.

Flashback when plastic model planes and cars were a thing. Dad (and mom too) had to read the big words and I just follow the pictures and got glue all over the place. Same thing with TM's. Replace glue with grease. LOL

For me, I'll jump in and try and fish one out. Everybody back in the POOL, CAMO

 

[Hammer]

Not saying I don't agree that it gets tiresome with everyone just posting without even attempting to look or search for an answer.
I blame social media for changing how people surf and search the internet for information.
It feels like forums are the last threshold of actual real information.
All this social media stuff is exactly like what we are seeing 'help me, I need this info'... It isn't easy to search those for real information, but it is easy to just ask for it.

Thing is, a few years back, SS went WAY overboard with this and really pissed a lot of people off.
This is a dangerous path to take.
Ever wonder where a lot of the older members went? Where a lot of knowledge went? (lot of jerks to, not all bad )

 

[M35fan]

Seems to me there is a fine line somewhere in here. The difference seems to be those people who ask for help after they've made a genuine effort to solve it themselves, and the other people who don't look for answers but simply ask for help. I myself have asked for and recieved help here lots of times. I've also learned from reading old posts where somebody - asked a question - and others answered. As far as the grouchy old MV crowd, I've seen more respectful and helpful people on this forum than the grouchy kind. A lot more. Steel Soldiers is about more than just troubleshooting. It's a place to share stories and to cheer each other on with our projects. I haven't been a member here nearly as long as a lot of you. I'm sure that answering simple questions ad nauseam gets really old. For me, I'm still fresh and I enjoy sharing what little knowledge I have when I can. Thanks to all of you for being here.
-M

 

[kendelrio]

Here's my .02...

When I first came to the site I had bought a deuce. I wanted info and asked several questions that were replied with "DiD yOu rEAd ThE tMs?"

First of all, I had no idea what a TM was. Secondly, while I NOW understand how the TMs are arranged, I **still** have trouble finding ones to help new members.

I make it a point that if any member asks a question, I will take it upon myself to find the correct TM and message them with a link and overview of where the jnfo is.

It is frustrating to see so many members here WHO HAVE the knowledge give a half ass "DYRTT" answer.

There are other times where a question is asked and NO ONE bothers answering.

I asked a question the other day regarding lights on a Five Ton. No answer, but I had another member state they had the same issue.

And guess what... I READ THE TM, did many hours of research on my own and have yet to even have a clue as to what's going on.

I use thos site not only as a way to stay in touch with other members, find parts and laugh, bit as a tool.

Sometimes we are b**** deep in a project and just want some feedback. Sometimes the answers aren't in the TM.

Yes, they were written simply for the average soldier to understand, but sometimes the issue at hand is a one off that the "average soldier" wouldn't worry about.

For instance: my rear BO brake lights work in "Marker" position, but not "Drive" position. I researched the TM, I researched the forums and the web. No answer.

The TMs aren't the font of knowledge some people here attach to them, and when I see "DYRTT" my first thought is "Get over yourself. The person asked a simple question. Maybe instead of replying "DYRTT", reply with an answer and maybe a reference page for the TM, as that will educate them and help them learn to decode it.

 

[Action]

I have heard some question askers state they do not have the time nor want to read thousands of pages to find something. The TMs have a table of contents, index, glossary, etc. even a “how to use this manual” section in the front.

 

[kendelrio]

I have heard some question askers state they do not have the time nor want to read thousands of pages to find something. The TMs have a table of contents, index, glossary, etc. even a “how to use this manual” section in the front.

Let's use the time issue....

Let's say I'm having a problem and I'm on the side of the road or working on my vehicle and something seemed "off" and I'm working with only my phone, not a tablet or physical copy that would be easier to see, search etc.......


Which would be easier, not to mention less stressful... "Hey, I'm having **this** issue, can anyone help?"

First 6 replies "DiD yUo rEaD ThE Tm?"

Or "Check this and this, and maybe this. TM8675309-10 has a lot of info on that on page 1234".

Then maybe a PM asking if a phone call can help.

Personally, the second response would be much more helpful while the first would be (to me) off putting and make me less likely to engage in the site any more.

(Not a personal attack on you, just an observation).

 

[kendelrio]

And there are members here who have a WEALTH of knowledge and have sent me their numbers and I stay in touch with them, not only for the info they provide, but for contacting someone who has a same set of interests as me.

Personal story:

There was a member who I met IRL, became friends with and would visit on the phone and in person. Even after we both sold out MVs, we stayed on touch until he tragically passed in an accident. His widow and I STILL stay in touch and she knows should she need anything, I am more than willing to help.

This is the man who walked me through so many issues and problems with my truck that, had he replied with "DYRTT", I would never have fixed or found a person who was amazing and such a good person.

Remember, the usernames here have real people behind them and it isn't always laziness that has them ask a question. Sometimes they literally have no idea where to FIND the info or what to look for, as they may not be as mechanically inclined as some of us and aren't familiar with the numbering system or terms used.

 

[Mullaney]

.
Agreed and the tough part is that what I might describe something as - may not be written that way in the TM's.
<Ctrl> S to search, type in your term and let Acrobat find things -- sometimes.

Prime example of that for the LMTV manuals:

I searched for "Cab Bushing" and I also tried "Biscuit"

The proper term in the TM is "Front Cab Support"

I fumbled through it, said bad words, groused and grumped. Sad part was even when I found what I was searching for the answer I was seeking wasn't there. Now I know, but how long did I dig and come up empty? Who knows...

 

[Action]

I also see “DYRTT” come up in topics where a problem is stated, and easy checks are given. But the OP does not bother to take the advise given. They just keep asking. When asked if they checked the suggested items, they say no. Then they get told to read the manual.

 

[patracy]

This conversation has turned into a bashing thread. So I'll be locking this one up.

Before I go. No, we can't make people read the -10. But like some others have mentioned berating people into "RTFM" simply drives them away. Hence the rule change about this type of discussion a while back. You don't have to answer every thread that gets posted asking about something. It's not anyone's job to do so. But if you feel compelled to respond to a question/thread, do so with information, not simply go read the manual.

If all the answers to every question are in the manuals. Then we've already got the TMs posted up and there's no need for a forum to discuss them among people. While this site exists to provide a wealth of information about military vehicles. It also exists to bring collectors together. There's no TM for making friends with mutual interests. Which is what we hope to help foster here.