Singling out stock wheel advice please

[firemedic355]

I picked up some 395 Michelins so I'm going to single out the Deuce. Question is, do I really need to do a hub flip? I see that if I ran run them without hub flipping, everyone says they'll track inside the front width, but can you only do singles with the stock inner rim setup, with the wheel well tucking back over the hub? Why can't you use the outer wheel setup in a single with the wheel dish extending out from the hub?

Yes yes, I'm aware "395s are too wide, it's dangerous and I'll shoot my eye out." But it's been done hundreds of times, so for the sake of another $800+, I'm sticking with stock wheels for now.

Thanks in advance for your advice and pics are aways great!

 

[fsearls92]

You don't have to flip the hubs, just run the rears dished out. I had mine that way for a while but with airing down for all the sand in New Mexico it kept spinning the tubes. In the end it's worth getting the proper wheels if you plan on using it off road and airing down.

 

[tcruwithme]

Flipping the rear hubs is not has hard as it sounds. I'm not a mechanic, not an engineer, not a fabricator, not a welder ... It took me and a friend about four hours to get it done. The process is well documented here on Steel Soldiers as well as by Mike W. at XM381.com.

 

[Flyingvan911]

It took me about four or five hours also. Just be patient and take the time to clean and relube everything. Replace the gaskets and inspect all parts for damage and excessive wear.

 

[VPed]

It took me a few hours for several days, forget exactly how long. I know it was a 12 pack job though

 

[LiveFreeOrDieTryn2B]

Yes it's very easy to flip the hubs.While your doing it repack your bearings and replace your seals if you haven't already.

 

[LiveFreeOrDieTryn2B]

I also forgot to mention the stock rims do not track the same in the rear if you don't flip the hubs it makes it wider.I had to flip mine back because the new m105 trailer beds have shallow fender wells.I m going to tub them very soon to flip hubs.

 

[dmetalmiki]

When done properly they do look good, all tracking in line.

 

[The King Machine]

I used stock rims for over a year in off road conditions. They do the job! you can see in the picture how I ran them without flipping the hubs.

However like mentioned above, airing down you run the risk of spinning the tube. You should start planning to get proper rims though. Firstly for the safety aspect and second the turning radius on the stock rims is greatly reduced with the wider tires, id say by 30% Particularly on right turns where there is conflict with the steering linkage. If you are not carful in some off road conditions you can contact the shock mounts with the tire. (bye bye tire)

Also if you are planning to flex it off road your inner fenders are going to take a pounding.

 

[scboolitcaster]

What is the safety concern?

Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk

 

[The King Machine]

The tires are to wide for the rim. That coupled with the fact these 2 piece snap ring style is an ancient design. You need to take them to a tire shop to press the rubber down just to install the snap ring. No shortage of videos on the internet of these 2 piece style of wheels detonating while being filled with air. Extra care is required. Technically these are radial tires and are not designed to be used with inner tubes, but most have no problem. I didn't.

The last is the offset of the rim, it doesn't work well with the wider tire as I mentioned above. Up north here you can be fined or towed for having your tires come in contact with any part of the chassis or fenders

 

[VPed]

Back to the OP: I did exactly as you trying to save the money for the proper wheels and such. I bought tire close to me to save shipping. I mounted my own tires using tips on this site to save cost. I had two wheels widened to alleviate the interference with the fender well louvers and suspension components in the front. It was fun for a while. The fun dissipated when you find your truck frequently has a flat and while the monetary price to break down a tire and patch a tube was right, it gets tiring fast.

Don't forget there will be a significant investment in tubes unless you happen to have a bunch of larger tubes laying around. So you search the interweb and such and find a decent deal and procure some. there is a great chance they are foreign-made. With time, you find import tubes do not last like the originals that come out of the NDTs. They rot out just sitting there. I know because I had one fail on day while I was around to witness it.

I agree with fsearls about the problems airing down to off-road. Not only can you spin the tire and rip the tube, sand grains can migrate past the flap at low pressures and wear a hole in the tube. A good majority on my flats were due to a hole in the tube halfway down the sidewall even with the tire valve. Eventually, I got the right wheels and adapters (I think Peashooters are well worth the money, apparent when you see one). Now I of-road with wild abandon, air down to nothing on the back, and never worry about even popping a bead with the beadlocks. Zero problems since I changed direction. Point is, factor in the cost of tubes and heartache when you do your cost/benefit analysis.

When I decided to go the MRAP tire and wheel route, mostly what was available was tires with wheels. That's what I got but then I had extra tires that had to get sold. I wished I'd have gone straight to the MRAP wheels and tires from the get go. My 2 cents. By the way, member 98G had some aluminum MRAP wheels listed in the classifieds for sale in Tucson, 4 I think. I think I have a couple matching his to complete a set of six.

 

[firemedic355]

Back to the OP: I did exactly as you trying to save the money for the proper wheels and such. I bought tire close to me to save shipping. I mounted my own tires using tips on this site to save cost. I had two wheels widened to alleviate the interference with the fender well louvers and suspension components in the front. It was fun for a while. The fun dissipated when you find your truck frequently has a flat and while the monetary price to break down a tire and patch a tube was right, it gets tiring fast.

Don't forget there will be a significant investment in tubes unless you happen to have a bunch of larger tubes laying around. So you search the interweb and such and find a decent deal and procure some. there is a great chance they are foreign-made. With time, you find import tubes do not last like the originals that come out of the NDTs. They rot out just sitting there. I know because I had one fail on day while I was around to witness it.

I agree with fsearls about the problems airing down to off-road. Not only can you spin the tire and rip the tube, sand grains can migrate past the flap at low pressures and wear a hole in the tube. A good majority on my flats were due to a hole in the tube halfway down the sidewall even with the tire valve. Eventually, I got the right wheels and adapters (I think Peashooters are well worth the money, apparent when you see one). Now I of-road with wild abandon, air down to nothing on the back, and never worry about even popping a bead with the beadlocks. Zero problems since I changed direction. Point is, factor in the cost of tubes and heartache when you do your cost/benefit analysis.

When I decided to go the MRAP tire and wheel route, mostly what was available was tires with wheels. That's what I got but then I had extra tires that had to get sold. I wished I'd have gone straight to the MRAP wheels and tires from the get go. My 2 cents. By the way, member 98G had some aluminum MRAP wheels listed in the classifieds for sale in Tucson, 4 I think. I think I have a couple matching his to complete a set of six.

We're definitely in the same boat lol. After fighting an hour with one rim, even trying to use my tractor bucket to help break the bead, all with no avail, I gave up and bought MRAP wheels.

And you're right about the tube cost! I was into each tube for $50 with tax! And those were just Chinese tubes that alone had me second guessing the decision to stick with stock wheels.

The unfortunate part with converting to MRAP is, the wheels are are part of it.... Then comes adapters, which are as much as the wheels, if not more. But, I'm all set up right now.....other than the demolished remains of my bank account

 

[dmetalmiki]

The large wheels are great for lower RPMs, Better cruise, and fuel consumption. But Deuces are not at all suited (or designed) for anything off road. Obstacles like, grass, sand and bumpy lanes are the limit. I only ever saw one deuce (not flipped larger tires fitted attempt an off road competition, (at the War and Peace Revival), and it (the trucks wheel) ripped off the exhaust and broke the turbo!. The Ural behind just chugged passed and completed the course with no problem at all.
I would do as suggested by Vped, best route to go for you. And On road and some light off road perhaps.

A picture of my old deuce of many years I acquired back recently, with 'Adapters' I made to have the wheels all tracking in line with larger (British AEC Militant) Wheels and 1200x20 tires.
Nice low rpm,s decent mpg and cruise.

 

[The King Machine]

We're definitely in the same boat lol. After fighting an hour with one rim, even trying to use my tractor bucket to help break the bead, all with no avail, I gave up and bought MRAP wheels.

And you're right about the tube cost! I was into each tube for $50 with tax! And those were just Chinese tubes that alone had me second guessing the decision to stick with stock wheels.

The unfortunate part with converting to MRAP is, the wheels are are part of it.... Then comes adapters, which are as much as the wheels, if not more. But, I'm all set up right now.....other than the demolished remains of my bank account

You did the right thing.

Welcome to the club. I have the DXF. file from my adapters.
Post pics of your truck when its done.

 

[The King Machine]

The large wheels are great for lower RPMs, Better cruise, and fuel consumption. But Deuces are not at all suited (or designed) for anything off road. Obstacles like, grass, sand and bumpy lanes are the limit. I only ever saw one deuce (not flipped larger tires fitted attempt an off road competition, (at the War and Peace Revival), and it (the trucks wheel) ripped off the exhaust and broke the turbo!. The Ural behind just chugged passed and completed the course with no problem at all.
I would do as suggested by Vped, best route to go for you. And On road and some light off road perhaps.

• 
  A picture of my old deuce of many years I acquired back recently, with 'Adapters' I made to have the wheels all tracking in line with larger (British AEC Militant) Wheels and 1200x20 tires.
  Nice low rpm,s decent mpg and cruise.

• 
  
  
  Oh come now dmetalmiki, Your being too hard the Deuce.

 

[VPed]

I also do not agree about limited off-roading. The reason I needed widened wheels in the first iteration of my truck was because I am always articulating the suspension a bunch. The reason some of us know about ripping the stem out of the tubes when you air down is because we are surrounded by sugar sand. The original NDTs on original wheels would do the same thing if it weren't for the fact that most tires are so stuck to the wheel with corrosion that it is virtually impossible for them to move separately. (I hear you firemedic about fighting to separate wheels from tires) I regularly trail with Jeep guys, many modified with lockers/spools and high HP engines. I cannot remember how many of those guys have comment on the capability of my truck after it is apparent they just cannot seem to loose me.

I believe my truck as it sits now on MRAP wheels with peashooter's plates is about perfect as far as overall tire fit. If the front tires were a little more to the inside or outside, I would have enough interference with body or suspension parts to cause concern. The rears articulate to the bump stops regularly without issue. I did flip the hubs though.

 

[fsearls92]

I disagree too with the lack of off road capability. Some people just don't know how to drive them or air down properly. We pull trucks and trailers all the time out of deep sand and mud at elephant butte lake in New Mexico. My buddy pulls a 40 foot fifth wheel through the deep sand all the time and never gets stuck, and his is still on duals.

 

[firemedic355]

UPDATE: You can't run the rims dish out. At least not with the aluminum MRAP wheels I have. You could MAYBE get away with it if you have the 50/50 offset style or some of the steel models with long outturned valve stems, but with the standard offset aluminum MRAP wheels with the short valves machined into the mounting face , running them dish out puts the mounting face up against the brake drums. It's within about an inch, so there's no way to access your valve stems without pulling the wheels off. So....I'm not having to hub flip.

 

[seekhim1]

here is the solution for running dish out courtesy of peashooter look at this... http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...-to-my-deuce&p=1702504&viewfull=1#post1702504 this is what I'm going to do