Snow Tires + Speed vs. Tire size?

[biodeucel]

So which millitary tire is best in the snow? XL, XML, XZL? We get lotsa snow up here so I would like to be able to plow through snow almost to the bumper. I know chains would help, but I'm talking just the tires. Would be running super singles. Also, which tire size is best for speed? Is it bigger = better, or do tires over a certain size begin to slow you down?

 

[emr]

RE: Snow Tires

the driver means as much if not more than the tire when they are all all terain types...but i can understand the post and want to hear the comments, i have my own, i love ndt's but realize others may be betterand some are, the narrower tire no matter what is definitely a better snow tire anyday of the week no matter what tire .mud and snow will be better handled by a cheep narrow tire than the most expensive big floater....Randy

 

[biodeucel]

RE: Snow Tires

Thanks for the reply. It makes sense to use narrow tires because they can sink in and grab the solid ground underneath. But what tread type is best for grabbing the ground? It seams like a XL tire with the more aggressve treads would fair better than the XZL which has a more flat surface.

 

[rd3war]

RE: Snow Tires

Nothing beats a good set of chains for traction on snow or ice.
I have seen michelin XL tires that have been grooved and sipped that would perform much better in snow than the standard issue.

 

[biodeucel]

RE: Snow Tires

Alright, now will 15.5's begin to slow you down because of size, or do they make you go faster? At some point tire size has to be too great for the torque of the engine and it will begin to slow down, but at what tire size is that? (tires size for max speed)

 

[gun512]

6million inch tire. Very fast in the straights.

 

[Elwenil]

Good snow tires should have a tight tread pattern with a lot of horizontal grooves to grip the snow. Mud tires do not make good snow tires as they are designed to "clean" and you actually want to load up the tread with snow if possible since snow sticks to snow a lot better than rubber does. I really wouldn't choose any of the Michelin military tires since they have a lot of space between their tread blocks but with some custom grooving and siping, they could be worthwhile. I would look at something more like a road tractor tire designed for all seasons and if you need heavy traction, snow chains can't be beat.

 

[biodeucel]

6million inch tire. Very fast in the straights.

they still make that size?

 

[gringeltaube]

Re: RE: Snow Tires

..... the narrower tire no matter what is definitely a better snow tire anyday of the week no matter what tire .mud and snow will be better handled by a cheep narrow tire than the most expensive big floater....Randy

I'm afraid having to disagree here... why do you think they use tracked vehicles where there is only snow? Why do Unimogs come with soft high flotation tires? Why did the Goodyear Terra tires get so popular not only in the farming industry? Why do big wheeled articulated farm tractors use even 8 such fat meats? Why was it that starting from back in the early '60s D.Cepek and M.Thompson and all the others later, had such great success selling high fl.tires to off road enthusiasts all over the world?
What if the distance to firm ground is more than your front axle ground clearance? What if there is no firm ground at all?
Just take a stock winch equipped truck (empty) and try to traverse non-cultivated flat pasture land in a region where it rains once a week…!

Our 9.00-20 NDTs look nice and classic but actually a re remnants of a tire technology known and applied in the late '40s when they started replacing rayon with Nylon 6,6. And 20 years later it still was a difficult task for Armstrong to make a big wide LT tire round and stable. But today… with modern materials and compounds you can get a 46” tubeless steel radial with less than 2mm radial and lateral runout, almost perfectly balanced!! (That sure counts since we don’t only drive our Deuces in mud and snow!)

I went all the way from old surplus 9.00-20s to fresh brand new ones to modern radials. And I won’t go back to NDTs unless its for a museum!

Ohh… you mentioned "the driver": of course, you can get stuck with any tire type in any terrain if… e.g.: tire and brain spining in opposite directions….!

G.

 

[saddamsnightmare]

October 5th, 2008.

Just my preference, but the Army later, after the NDT's, went to among other designs, the Goodyear G177 M+S in 11:00x20" Radials for the deuces, and if fitted with chains, will probably haul you out of most anything you're going to face. The singling out of the rear tandems was done for off road work, and should improve traction in snow also.... The problem is, When, not if, you blow a tire, life can get more interesting with singles. The purpose of the duals on the rear tandems was to give the truck and its crew a chance to survive a tire failure, from whatever cause, and be able to get the load to a slightly safer area before having to change it out... Of course CTIS is supposed to have made this all irrelevant. The dualled tandems, however, when lightly loaded, do tend to give the truck too much tire surface for weight, and the tendency is to float on mud or snow, and thus you are more likely to get stuck more by not having grip then having it....
My experience with standard NDT's on snow and wet pavement can give one pause to reflect on the Creator's plan's for you in life, particularly when the deuce is evincing a tendency to go somewhere other then where you've pointed her. The Swiss on their NDT's on the Unimogs siped the lugs and the center ridge, and I can say that the wet weather handling improved measureably over the standard tires, but I have lately refitted her with Uniroyal M+S 1250X20 radials from a German Army Unimog, and the handling on extremely wet roads, pooled water and all, is quite impressive!
Do remember, that if you are going to a taller tire on the deuce, each inch of additional diameter will increase your road speed slightly, but will also decrease the torque you can develop at the wheel's perifery, so if you do get bogged, it is less likely that the truck will be able to recover itself as quickly. Also, do remember that the deuce was designed in 1948 as an off road tactical truck, so the additional speed gain represents an increased chance for insufficient braking capacity to appear also (E.G. you may overspeed the brakes and suffer reductions or complete failure in high speed stops).
Give it your best shot, AND use common sense.... Just because it's a 6X6 doesn't mean you're not going to get stuck, you're just going to get stuck in places where it's much harder to get out of (see the guy thread that got stuck in TN in his deuce.....)!

Good luck and Cheers,

Sincerely,

Kyle F. McGrogan

1971 Kaiser Jeep M35A2 Wo/W "Saddam's Nightmare" Desert Storm and Vietnam Veteran Deuce
1968 Johnson Corp M105A2 Cargo trailer
1963 Swiss Army Cargo Unimog
1967 Hercules MEP023A Gas Gen Set APU

 

[emr]

I would agree with the g177's , as the best snow/all around tire,BUT for one i love an agressive tread, even in snow, on the street i agree a tighter patern, but no way in off road snow,,,no way.
unimogs are a over engineered vehilce with so many uses it boggles the mind, the big tires on them are not good for everything just because they have them, i know many love em, i do not, like most german vehicles ,to much thought and not enough power, ouch ,sorry just an opinion,... in mud and snow a wider tire takes alot more horsepower/torque to push em thru, they will slip and slid much easier for sure also, i respect your opinion big time, but its not true, sorry i have many years in the saddle with many tires and watched many ideas in mud bogs ive raced in and blizzards ive plowed in and just wheeled in, every snow storm since ive been able to drive in ive taken out multiple vehicles and played, i have alot of experience with direct driven comparrisons with so much stuff im even amazed, but a cheap narrow tire will slice thru mud and snow better than any super big tire, but then again like anything else all things have to be considered, the horse power width length wieght and driver of said vehicle also...in the big mud year in aberdeen, the only vehicles pulling were M37s, narrow ndts, and deuces narrow ndts, i pulled more vehicles out than anybody by far big time, the hummers needed to double up pulling and even then did not do as good as an m 37 alone, mike knows my deuce empty pulling a tractor trailer sliced thru the mud better than his big tired Mog empty, i was pulling an anchor with no traction weight, it was the tires.u cant stop with all that mud like a wall in front, i pulled away he had to back up and go to break the wall, i watch it and saw it coming thats why i stopped and waved him on but he did the same to try to help me,Mike is a Great Guy! difference was i now my vehicles like the back of my hands what i can do and where i can go, sure i get stuck alot a real lot, i like it...no vehicle ever made or tire can do everything well, there is always a trade off, thats why i say most every thing that happens to us all is 98 percent driver error.

 

[emr]

I would agree with the g177's , as the best snow/all around tire,BUT for one i love an agressive tread, even in snow, on the street i agree a tighter patern, but no way in off road snow,,,no way.
unimogs are a over engineered vehilce with so many uses it boggles the mind, the big tires on them are not good for everything just because they have them, i know many love em, i do not, like most german vehicles ,to much thought and not enough power, ouch ,sorry just an opinion,... in mud and snow a wider tire takes alot more horsepower/torque to push em thru, they will slip and slid much easier for sure also, i respect your opinion big time, but its not true, sorry i have many years in the saddle with many tires and watched many ideas in mud bogs ive raced in and blizzards ive plowed in and just wheeled in, every snow storm since ive been able to drive in ive taken out multiple vehicles and played, i have alot of experience with direct driven comparrisons with so much stuff im even amazed, but a cheap narrow tire will slice thru mud and snow better than any super big tire, but then again like anything else all things have to be considered, the horse power width length wieght and driver of said vehicle also...in the big mud year in aberdeen, the only vehicles pulling were M37s, narrow ndts, and deuces narrow ndts, i pulled more vehicles out than anybody by far big time, the hummers needed to double up pulling and even then did not do as good as an m 37 alone, mike knows my deuce empty pulling a tractor trailer sliced thru the mud better than his big tired Mog empty, i was pulling an anchor with no traction weight, it was the tires.u cant stop with all that mud like a wall in front, i pulled away he had to back up and go to break the wall, i watch it and saw it coming thats why i stopped and waved him on but he did the same to try to help me,Mike is a Great Guy! difference was i now my vehicles like the back of my hands what i can do and where i can go, sure i get stuck alot a real lot, i like it...no vehicle ever made or tire can do everything well, there is always a trade off, thats why i say most every thing that happens to us all is 98 percent driver error.

Please understand i love ALL MV's realized I sounded silly stating a Mog as not perfect, many rightfuly think they are so i am letting yall know i have misgivings about all mv's ,none are perfect none, but ALL are awesome, it was used in a post replying to me so i used it right or wrong no harm intended believe me, read it the way i meant it please, as a comparrison and an opinion....Thanks i needed to add that...If i ever hurt anybodys feelings pm me and i will appoligise,,,its for discussion/ comparrison purposes only...I know how much U guys LOVE Your trucks and glad U do.Randy

 

[emr]

I would agree with the g177's , as the best snow/all around tire,BUT for one i love an agressive tread, even in snow, on the street i agree a tighter patern, but no way in off road snow,,,no way.
unimogs are a over engineered vehilce with so many uses it boggles the mind, the big tires on them are not good for everything just because they have them, i know many love em, i do not, like most german vehicles ,to much thought and not enough power, ouch ,sorry just an opinion,... in mud and snow a wider tire takes alot more horsepower/torque to push em thru, they will slip and slid much easier for sure also, i respect your opinion big time, but its not true, sorry i have many years in the saddle with many tires and watched many ideas in mud bogs ive raced in and blizzards ive plowed in and just wheeled in, every snow storm since ive been able to drive in ive taken out multiple vehicles and played, i have alot of experience with direct driven comparrisons with so much stuff im even amazed, but a cheap narrow tire will slice thru mud and snow better than any super big tire, but then again like anything else all things have to be considered, the horse power width length wieght and driver of said vehicle also...in the big mud year in aberdeen, the only vehicles pulling were M37s, narrow ndts, and deuces narrow ndts, i pulled more vehicles out than anybody by far big time, the hummers needed to double up pulling and even then did not do as good as an m 37 alone, mike knows my deuce empty pulling a tractor trailer sliced thru the mud better than his big tired Mog empty, i was pulling an anchor with no traction weight, it was the tires.u cant stop with all that mud like a wall in front, i pulled away he had to back up and go to break the wall, i watch it and saw it coming thats why i stopped and waved him on but he did the same to try to help me,Mike is a Great Guy! difference was i now my vehicles like the back of my hands what i can do and where i can go, sure i get stuck alot a real lot, i like it...no vehicle ever made or tire can do everything well, there is always a trade off, thats why i say most every thing that happens to us all is 98 percent driver error.

So after all that my opinion of the answer is also the G177's

 

[biodeucel]

Which of the three (XL, XML, XZL) millitary tires would be best?

 

[rockman]

BD, I have 12.5 XLs on my duece and they worked great in the snow in PA.


Bill now in TN

 

[mightyhammer]

You have to understand that when plowing snow, the intended purpose is to get down to the solid road surface be it frozen dirt or blacktop...Yes high flotation tires have their place in soft surfaced terrain, but when plowing you don't necessarilly need to worry about axle clearance. Your best bet is an aggressive self cleaning tread pattern that is siped...I have been doing this for years and have plowed many feet of snow with multiple types of vehicles. Chains are not always a necessity either if you are packing the weight you need for the tires to girp....I am not going to get into the science of things, but Yes if you wanted to stay on top of the snow you would want flotation tires...If you are plowing snow you want narrow tall and aggressive siped tires...NUFF SAID! COOP

 

[chestypuller1371]

i found a guy selling used NDT tires. quite a few of them say rayon on them, would that be a good one to steer away from? he said they are tuff as the nylon ndt, but isnt rayon 40s tech?

 

[tommys2patrick]

Rayon is much earlier than 40's, Nylon was late 30's. http://www.fibersource.com/f-tutor/history.htm An interesting history of such fibers. Think of Rayon as an organic fiber and Nylon as a petro chemical version. Basically developed as substitute for silk. Eventually it was used in a millions of things.

 

[SP5]

It being Winter, and with talk of snow tires, I thought that this video might be of some intrest.
That GHE is pretty neat, built in Romania, but uses Chevy/GM engine/trans.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poFPA9IfTgk

 

[Karl kostman]

As per my experience the absolute BEST military tire for snow and ice is all of them as long as they have chains around them!
KK