so many starters

[edpdx]

I am in the process of pulling my starter for replacement. I bought it in February this year and it is still under warranty. It is a Caltric from daBay. (1 year warranty... we'll see)

Anyway. I tested it per the TM and found that there is indeed power to the purple wire at the starter solenoid. According to the TM-20 Mafunc. Test $2- if there is power here when the key is turned to the start position, replace the starter. Yeah, chalk one up for the TM's .

WHY DO THESE STARTERS BURN UP SO REGULARLY? I am not shouting really, just want to get all y'all's attention and get to the bottom of this. What part actually arcs itself silly and why. PLEASE someone tell me. Cause if it is a matter of build quality, then I'll start counting out my tip jar and buy an OEM, or have a better one (re)built from the core.

I have a spare solenoid, so maybe I'll tear into it- they are not serviceable (sealed); but if the problem is in the solenoid and not the starter case, at least I will know what the problem looks like.

 

[acesneights1]

Made in China garbage ...that's why. It is indeed Dark times for the Truck/Auto enthusiasts. I never thought I'd see the day when quality parts for a Square body Chevy would become hard to find. Best to go to a local re builder. I still have the original one in my 1008 AFAIK.

 

[edpdx]

acesneights1, you are so right. Even NAPA, the last of the holdouts, is embarrased to tell me that a part is now made in china- no CAPS for those guys. **** I opened a new Blu-Ray player a few weeks ago and on the remote control I see "Made in china"... the Koreans are even getting their stuff built by the chinese! Tsk, tsk. What world come to?

 

[84cucv1ton]

i just got a new grinder. $70 made in Mexico. looks like the same thing my friend got from harbor freight for 30 bucks

 

[dstang97]

Just remember 2 things.
Nothing good has ever come out of china
Mark my words they will be the death of us.

 

[edpdx]

thanks for the replies so far; but I am still after the answer to my question: what part goes out on the starter?

 

[wired1000]

Try Ohio Generator. The guy there, Tom, build replacement starters for the military back in the late 80's and 90's. He'll build you a replacement starter for more than China but not by much. Mine was $199 shipped. He has some opinions about why they burn up so much, which I can't remember in their entirety. From what I remember, the issue is that the "wait" light goes out too soon, before the fuel pump / IP have fully pressurized. I've tried waiting for a few extra seconds after the wait light goes out, and found that the truck starts up almost right away.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

I've rebuilt a few GM starters, and it seems the solenoids and brushes are usually the culprit.Also if they see any water,that usually dooms them to early failure as they were originally sealed from the factory and usually they're not resealed after being rebuilt or replaced. HMMWVs are actually sealed after the engine and tranny are mated. Not sure if this was the case with CUCVs. A coworker used to work for Denso and he said each of their starters required at least three types of specified grease. I'm sure these standards arent carried over to an aftermarket mass rebuilder. I'd recommend rebuilding one yourself to get an idea how they work and failure modes. Sometimes it can actually cost just as much or more to rebuild yourself if you need certain parts, but its simple to do, and doesn't take much time.

 

[Fleg]

From what I remember, the issue is that the "wait" light goes out too soon, before the fuel pump / IP have fully pressurized.

What do you mean, before they are fully pressurized?

 

[101coolcars]

I recommend you rebuild the original unit, parts are available from aspwholesale.com. i bet the aftermarket ones are not lubed up properly and have a bunch of slightly misfit parts in them. also other starting problems agrevate the situation. we rebuild all our own alternators and many times the starter just need taken apart and cleaned and lubed to get them working again.

Thanks
Terry

 

[Dave Kay]

When I go into--- or call--- NAPA I DEMAND that the parts I buy NOT be chinese made. If you ask, they can order some AC-Delco electrical stuff but not everything for our model/year trucks is still available. And yes--- it costs more--- and yes--- it is true that AC Delco makes their stuff overseas but their quality control is BY FAR BETTER than 90% of your run-of-the-mill auto parts. This I say from experience: you get what you pay for.

 

[tvguy]

I bought starter from AutoZone a few years ago that was junk. I ended up finding an American remanufactured starter from a local mom & pop auto parts store a couple of years ago and so far it's still working great. Unfortunately, I can't remember the name of the company though.

 

[M1008driver]

I bought mine from crank-in-charge and changed my flexplate at the same time. They claim 100 percent new starters with a 2 year warranty. They have a website and also on ebay. So far no problems with the starter.

It is a gear reduction so you have to use the right brace. Make sure you watch and do not get the 12 volt unless that is what you need.

 

[edpdx]

Resolved:

I ordered a Wilson Gear Reduction MT28 to replace the Chinese one from ebay. I remember ordering the one off the bay and thinking I'd probably be better off replacing it with an American new OR quality American rebuilt; but the auction looked good and my thrify side said: "how bad can it be?"

That was 7 months ago.

The Wilson was better looking all around. It had heavier hardware, bigger solderings and felt like quality. The whole swap took about forty minutes. No Jack, on a gravel driveway. This is because the last time I had to change this starter (7 months ago- I did it twice or three times trying to troubleshoot the first starter they sent me. So, I put a 4 gauge connector inline on the the 24v red wire that goes to the starter and a solid locking connector on the purple line that goes to the starter solenoid- near the starter (I did lengthen this line for wiggle room in connecting/disconnecting). This way I don't have to monkey finger the starter in and out:

1. I disconnect the batteries, unplug the 24V line connector below the front battery near the chassis.
2. Then I take my wrenches and flashlight bottomside and disconnect the purple wire inline locking connector.
3. The red 24v cable is "unhooked" from it's supports and then the upper nut on the bracket is loosened to make it flexible enough to pull the starter free *later.
4. The lower one removed; but the starter is still supported.
5. The bolts come out, then the brace gets a push forward to *clear the starter support pin.
6. Work it backward. OUT.

Now I can switch the cables over to the new starter and reverse to install. Makes it very easy to get the cables tight, and I can now do it in terrain that won't be much m ore sever than my gravel driveway.

Incidentally, the new starter fired right up. Thanks for all your helpful ideas.

 

[firefox]

I didn't see the step where you put the different support bracket on
for the geared starter.
Bruce

 

[Warthog]

Glad you got it fixed. Any pics of your wiring setup?

 

[M1008driver]

I didn't see the step where you put the different support bracket on
for the geared starter.
Bruce

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/cucv/61729-6-2-starter-bolt-info-2.html

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/cucv/75124-changed-starter-now-starter-bracket-issue.html

 

[edpdx]

Firefox: Good catch. In an earlier thread of mine (much earlier) I had a similar problem. I Removed my Delco DD starter (turned out to be a 12volt model). I put a chinese junk model in at that time (gear reduc), also bought the correct bracket from the dealer at that time- so it was already in for this swap.

Warthog, thanks. Here is a picture of the connector I put inline. It was expensive; but worth the savings in time and visits to the confessional for swearing : ) I Just cut the original cable with some dikes- they were visiting from The City ; p I had to use these flux pellets in the lugs that came with the connector to "weld" the copper lugs to the cable; but it was easy enough.



The Blue ground wire will get a new topside ground connection as soon as I beat this cold I have. The connector below on the purple wire to the solenoid is more or less an extension of that wire. I got a heavy duty connector from a Ford truck at the Yard, when I got the idea to do this. No picture cause I don't feel well enough to crawl under the Blazer right now.

Hope this helps- it sure made changing the starter allot easier/faster.

 

[rumplecat]

Looking for starters, how about PTOs........