So what is the true HP out of the LDT-465-1C?

[rebelcummins]

All ready posted a new thread at Deuce Modification and Hot-Rodding and to keep on topick what ive read and heard LDT-465-1C has 160HP, comming from a motor pool mechanic and you can get close to 200HP out of it with turning fuel delivery rate up. 160 hp is close to what i have done as far as bore, stroke, displacment calulations.

 

[m16ty]

Without looking it up, I think the advertised hp for a LDT-465 is around 140hp.

I've heard some crazy claims of hp before but without some dyno numbers to back it up, I'm skeptical.

 

[rebelcummins]

Without looking it up, I think the advertised hp for a LDT-465 is around 140hp.

I've heard some crazy claims of hp before but without some dyno numbers to back it up, I'm skeptical.

I know how you feel, i see 130,140,145,150,160 on the hp. I have no idea whats true.

 

[gimpyrobb]

I know how you feel, i see 130,140,145,150,160 on the hp. I have no idea whats true.

134 is the factory spec for an LDT. 179 is factory for an LDS. Many folks install a pyro and add fuel till the motor hits 1200* on the pyro. This will get you close to 175hp. I know some have switched to a K&N air filter in the stock air filter housing. I am going to be installing a 5ton air filter housing on my fender(of the deuce). That should make room to install the fuel fired coolant heater I have to install.

 

[rebelcummins]

134 is the factory spec for an LDT. 179 is factory for an LDS. Many folks install a pyro and add fuel till the motor hits 1200* on the pyro. This will get you close to 175hp. I know some have switched to a K&N air filter in the stock air filter housing. I am going to be installing a 5ton air filter housing on my fender(of the deuce). That should make room to install the fuel fired coolant heater I have to install.

sound like a winner PM me on the cooleant heater i want know more. 1300* is melting point on the pistons...

 

[gimpyrobb]

I just searched for over an hour for the coolant heater thread. I'll see if I can dig it up later.

 

[11Echo]

134 is the factory spec for an LDT. 179 is factory for an LDS. Many folks install a pyro and add fuel till the motor hits 1200* on the pyro. This will get you close to 175hp. I know some have switched to a K&N air filter in the stock air filter housing. I am going to be installing a 5ton air filter housing on my fender(of the deuce). That should make room to install the fuel fired coolant heater I have to install.

I've seen a few LDT engines with a listed 140HP listed on the engine tag. In fact I own one.
A couple different examples. Both of these engines were in deuce dumps.

 

[randini]

How are these motors rated? I assume its at the Flywheel, or is it at the rear wheels?

 

[Dipstick]

My Deuce has a White Continental Whistler. I believe the correct rating for this particular engine is 134 hp and 330 lbs-ft of torque. Don't know how it's rated. I've read that installing a non-Whistler D turbo boosts power 15%. That would result in 154 hp.

 

[Dipstick]

I'm thinking the same. Cranking up the boost without internal mods is foolish. The LDS motor is a great start. I myself would do a thorough stock rebuild and be happy with the increase in power and torque the LDS provides. For me reliability rates first and horsepower second. Although, jeez I would miss the sound of my Whistler!

 

[Dipstick]

Congrats on the solo!!!! That's one dream I never accomplished. Glad you did!!!

 

[hornetfan]

high output LDT 465

To do the mods to get high hp it wouldn't be a multifuel anymore.

Why would lowering the compression slightly, installing studs for the mains, changing to a larger waste gated turbo, maybe getting Carillo or somebody to make custom rods, and similar mods to an LDT change it from a multifuel engine??

Why can these engines burn multiple fuels in the first place -- anyone that can answer this question on as technical a basis as possible is ENCOURAGED to join in here! I'd love to know and I've built engines both Otto cycle and spark ignition for about 35 years and I'm a mechanical engineer. I'm not sure of the answer but I have some ideas.

Thanks for the interesting to everyone that contributes. Good stuff.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Hornet, there are many threads that talk about the "hypercycle" combustion of these motors. If you cannot find the threads by the time I get back, I will find links and articles for you, but the info is here if you look.

 

[hornetfan]

Hornet, there are many threads that talk about the "hypercycle" combustion of these motors. If you cannot find the threads by the time I get back, I will find links and articles for you, but the info is here if you look.

I found 68 odd hits just searching for "hypercycle" using the SS search engine. I've got my chores cut out for me. Didn't have any idea what the devil I should be looking for. Still very new to SS and MVs in general (not counting 30 years of Land Rovers). THANKS!!

 

[frank8003]

There is that math.../. about torque versus horsepower in DIN or KW or Joules or whatever

All you need to no is that torque means more about horsepower than horsepower does.
No matter what has been built as a motive force as a heat engine it is always about that
one sweet spot whereas the torque and horsepower cross.
All one really needs is that specific torque delivered within the specific fuel consumption
as per design and then add all the gears within reason to run the motive force at it's peak torque.

i.e. get a diesel and lots of gears and stay within the "power band" to do the most work for
cheapest for a particular application.

pyrometers are a solution To enable NOT melting the metal.
Diesels run wild run given enough fuel and will blow themselves away
A M.A.N. Hypercycle is a diesel.

You don't control the oxygen input, you control only the fuel input.

and this is from SS, not me.............................
In a nutshell: The injector squirts a stream of fuel into a cup in the top of the piston. As it evaporates from the cup, it burns and expands, pushing the piston down. Conventional diesels inject a mist into the cylinder that burns immediately. The evaporation lag is what allows the engine to burn "hot" fuels such as gasoline, without detonation, or the fuel exploding rather than burning. M.A.N., a German company, invented this engine design. Continental called it "Hypercycle".
really its 22-1 comp.
And they are still mult-fuel even with the fuel density compensator bypassed!! Its mostly in the way the piston/combustion chamber is designed.
__________________

I've been too busy/lazy until now to bother looking into it, but I'm curious. How does these multifuel engines actually work? Why are these engines able to run on all these different fuels?
Extremely high compression (~27:1) and extra attention paid to the fuel atomization/spray pattern help to burn different fuels. There is also a fuel density compensator to help with the air/fuel ratio. There is probably also some secret magic voodoo mixed in somewhere
I hate to break it to you but the LDS is just a Diesel Engine, just like any other Diesel engine it can run a greater variety of fuels than a gasoline engine. The real heart of the system to maintain power is the FDC... That is what makes it run other fuels efficiently.

I know you people think there is something mystical to the engine in the internal structure but it just a diesel engine. The Cummins C-Series engine when used by the military will run on Jet-A, Kerosene, Fuel Oil as well as Diesel and there are no differences between Military ISC engine and the civilian one(even the Military DT-466 is rated to use other fuels no changes however, from the civilian DT-466). The only feature that makes the LDT-465 a true multi-fuel engine is the FDC which allows the engine to run on fuels with a lower oil content than a normal diesel engine would run on effectively.

Even the name LD means Liquid Cooled Diesel Engine. I mean everything about this engine is a diesel engine. The only key to running stuff like Gasoline or a mix of Diesel and Gas is the FDC... Bypass that and the engine will run, but it will produce less power, get poor fuel mileage, smoke more possible under loads.

Hey .......................................
Merry Christmas

 

[hornetfan]

There is that math.../. about torque versus horsepower in DIN or KW or Joules or whatever

All you need to no is that torque means more about horsepower than horsepower does.
No matter what has been built as a motive force as a heat engine it is always about that
one sweet spot whereas the torque and horsepower cross.
All one really needs is that specific torque delivered within the specific fuel consumption
as per design and then add all the gears within reason to run the motive force at it's peak torque.

i.e. get a diesel and lots of gears and stay within the "power band" to do the most work for
cheapest for a particular application.

pyrometers are a solution To enable NOT melting the metal.
Diesels run wild run given enough fuel and will blow themselves away
A M.A.N. Hypercycle is a diesel.

You don't control the oxygen input, you control only the fuel input.

and this is from SS, not me.............................
In a nutshell: The injector squirts a stream of fuel into a cup in the top of the piston. As it evaporates from the cup, it burns and expands, pushing the piston down. Conventional diesels inject a mist into the cylinder that burns immediately. The evaporation lag is what allows the engine to burn "hot" fuels such as gasoline, without detonation, or the fuel exploding rather than burning. M.A.N., a German company, invented this engine design. Continental called it "Hypercycle".
really its 22-1 comp.
And they are still mult-fuel even with the fuel density compensator bypassed!! Its mostly in the way the piston/combustion chamber is designed.
__________________

I've been too busy/lazy until now to bother looking into it, but I'm curious. How does these multifuel engines actually work? Why are these engines able to run on all these different fuels?
Extremely high compression (~27:1) and extra attention paid to the fuel atomization/spray pattern help to burn different fuels. There is also a fuel density compensator to help with the air/fuel ratio. There is probably also some secret magic voodoo mixed in somewhere
I hate to break it to you but the LDS is just a Diesel Engine, just like any other Diesel engine it can run a greater variety of fuels than a gasoline engine. The real heart of the system to maintain power is the FDC... That is what makes it run other fuels efficiently.

I know you people think there is something mystical to the engine in the internal structure but it just a diesel engine. The Cummins C-Series engine when used by the military will run on Jet-A, Kerosene, Fuel Oil as well as Diesel and there are no differences between Military ISC engine and the civilian one(even the Military DT-466 is rated to use other fuels no changes however, from the civilian DT-466). The only feature that makes the LDT-465 a true multi-fuel engine is the FDC which allows the engine to run on fuels with a lower oil content than a normal diesel engine would run on effectively.

Even the name LD means Liquid Cooled Diesel Engine. I mean everything about this engine is a diesel engine. The only key to running stuff like Gasoline or a mix of Diesel and Gas is the FDC... Bypass that and the engine will run, but it will produce less power, get poor fuel mileage, smoke more possible under loads.

Hey .......................................
Merry Christmas

Just right amount of information and the critical piece I was missing -- the fuel density compensator. The cupped pistons I was aware of. Cummins marine engines have deep cups and will tolerate plenty of alternate fuels such as WMO and jet fuel. As the fuel density gets lighter various fuels' spontaneous combustion temperature increases. The cup together with mostly liquid being injected allows lighter fuels such as gasoline to preheat until they get to spontaneous combustion temp and then fire off smoothly. Makes sense. Now I need to dig into exactly how the the fuel density compensator does its job. (help welcome!)

I wonder if Cummins marine injectors don't inject a "wetter" spray pattern rather than a seriously atomized mist?

Merry Christmas everybody! Not a bad at all for the second day after the "end of the world", huh?

Thanks for your help, Frank!

All the best to everyone and God Bless us everyone.

Clarke

 

[Heath_h49008]

Extremely high compression (~27:1) and extra attention paid to the fuel atomization/spray pattern help to burn different fuels. There is also a fuel density compensator to help with the air/fuel ratio. There is probably also some secret magic voodoo mixed in somewhere
I hate to break it to you but the LDS is just a Diesel Engine, just like any other Diesel engine it can run a greater variety of fuels than a gasoline engine. The real heart of the system to maintain power is the FDC... That is what makes it run other fuels efficiently.

I know you people think there is something mystical to the engine in the internal structure but it just a diesel engine. The Cummins C-Series engine when used by the military will run on Jet-A, Kerosene, Fuel Oil as well as Diesel and there are no differences between Military ISC engine and the civilian one(even the Military DT-466 is rated to use other fuels no changes however, from the civilian DT-466). The only feature that makes the LDT-465 a true multi-fuel engine is the FDC which allows the engine to run on fuels with a lower oil content than a normal diesel engine would run on effectively.

... I mean everything about this engine is a diesel engine. The only key to running stuff like Gasoline or a mix of Diesel and Gas is the FDC... Bypass that and the engine will run, but it will produce less power, get poor fuel mileage, smoke more possible under loads.

Hey .......................................
Merry Christmas

Everything in this quote is wrong. The rest of that post was basically correct.

There are a ton of threads on this, but this last part couldn't be allowed to stand and cause confusion.

It is multifuel due to the timing, liquid injection ( as opposed to mist), piston/quench design, and the FDC simply adjusts fuel pressure by density to keep the HP output in a controlled window. Bypass the FDC and you still have a multifuel. You just have one that doesn't adjust fuel volume to compensate for density and the output HP will vary because the fuel volume will be fixed. Hence the name "Fuel Density Compensator."

 

[Heath_h49008]

Thinner fuel... like gasoline... makes the injection pump crank the pressure. More pressure for a given injection event means more fuel in cc/ml terms, and the less energetic "light" fuel is "Compensated" for with the increased fuel volume. It is a piston, spring and wedge on the smoke screw. One alternate method of turning up the fuel in the LDT/LDS was to insert 2 quarters under the cover of the FDC to push down on the piston and imitate the thinner fuel mode. (As told by a Vietnam era member IIRC)

 

[gimpyrobb]

One alternate method of turning up the fuel in the LDT/LDS was to insert 2 quarters under the cover of the FDC to push down on the piston and imitate the thinner fuel mode. (As told by a Vietnam era member IIRC)

If you don't know how it works, you shouldn't post it, just like the guy before you.

Posting what you don't know is bad for the site members. The rest is correct, the FDC has nothing to do with it being a multifuel.



30 years of LC has nothing to do with this thread. If you got 68 results to read, its time to read up. If you want to know about something, reading is a good way to find out. I have read for hours to find answers for others. As I said, I will post up answers for you too, you just have to wait till I get home.

 

[frank8003]

and this is from SS, not me.............................