So who has bumped the power on a 6CTA cummins

[silverstate55]

I'd change that in a heart beat. Mil spec'd 8 degrees of timing for our motors... most OEM's spec 16 degrees.

I've been following your build thread; I may revisit it on mine later this year.

Thanks!

 

[74M35A2]

Interesting thing happened 2 nights ago. I have a 2009 Chevy Colorado with a factory 300hp 5.3L V8 all aluminum LS motor in it (gasoline), runs out good, especially in a "mini" truck. An old 90's full size Dodge Ram Cummins 5.9L pulls up next to me, rusty rockers and all, and nudges a few times to race, so away we go. He does not win or beat me, but I was pushing the pedal through the floor with 5800rpm shifts and I could not get him to appear in my rear view mirror. Neck and neck. We did this 3 times, once from a roll, all same result, I let up at 70mph each time. He had 3 people wide in his cab, I was alone. I asked what he had done and he said just lift pump, larger injectors, stiffer valve springs, governor spring kit, 1/2 turbo upgrade (hybrid), and turned up pump. That thing ran amazing. Lots of black smoke from a dead dig, but it cleared up once the turbo came on. I'm still in amazement that an old diesel engine of nearly same displacement ran a heavier truck and 3 guys at the same pace as my 300hp LS, in a vehicle 1000lbs lighter. His sounded great, no smoke or haze at idle, said he has a hard time keeping the auto transmission reliable. I bet. I think maybe some here have played with 5.9L's and have similar experience, Patracy has, if not others?

Point here, I think I am now shopping for a used "P" pump, such as what those engines came with (Bosch P7100). They are far more capable than the "MW" pumps we have, from what I understand. Fits and works on 8.3L, have to do something about an oil line change, but sounds easy. Some 8.3L's came with them, in non-MV apps. I think the marine 8.3L rated over 400hp used a Denso injection pump.

 

[fuzzytoaster]

Interesting thing happened 2 nights ago. I have a 2009 Chevy Colorado with a factory 300hp 5.3L V8 all aluminum LS motor in it (gasoline), runs out good, especially in a "mini" truck. An old 90's full size Dodge Ram Cummins 5.9L pulls up next to me, rusty rockers and all, and nudges a few times to race, so away we go. He does not win or beat me, but I was pushing the pedal through the floor with 5800rpm shifts and I could not get him to appear in my rear view mirror. Neck and neck. We did this 3 times, once from a roll, all same result, I let up at 70mph each time. He had 3 people wide in his cab, I was alone. I asked what he had done and he said just lift pump, larger injectors, stiffer valve springs, governor spring kit, 1/2 turbo upgrade (hybrid), and turned up pump. That thing ran amazing. Lots of black smoke from a dead dig, but it cleared up once the turbo came on. I'm still in amazement that an old diesel engine of nearly same displacement ran a heavier truck and 3 guys at the same pace as my 300hp LS, in a vehicle 1000lbs lighter. His sounded great, no smoke or haze at idle, said he has a hard time keeping the auto transmission reliable. I bet. I think maybe some here have played with 5.9L's and have similar experience, Patracy has, if not others?

At risk of getting off track for this thread the 5.9L is a great motor. I did a bunch of research for a fellow SS member who was thinking of repowering his deuce with one and sources say as long as you can get an early-mid 90's 12V with mechanical pump you're golden. I see plenty of dodges pop up with the 5.9L of all varieties and they seem to keep their power reliability despite high miles mileage. I'm not surprised about the transmission part, if you're buying an engine like that you intend to do something with it..hauling or street racing like above.

 

[nevrenufhp]

A colorado with a V8? Way Kool.
I had a 97 dodge with similar mods as that guy you raced. It was a lot of fun. To run a Ppump off a dodge isn't too hard. The timing case, pump, lines, and injectors. You could get away with the old lines but they don't quite line up. The timing case can be modified to fit the Ppump, but it's much less trouble to just get the case. I know a guy with a 12mm Ppump from an 8.3, and comes with everything needed for the swap.
Marine 8.3 went up to 480hp/1250tq.

 

[74M35A2]

Yep.

Tell more about a P7100 conversion. What has to be modified on the cover? Is it for the pump oil line?

 

[nevrenufhp]

It's the whole timing case, not really a mod, but swapping parts. It already has the hose in it for external oil feed.

 

[Ford Mechanic]

Interesting thing happened 2 nights ago. I have a 2009 Chevy Colorado with a factory 300hp 5.3L V8 all aluminum LS motor in it (gasoline), runs out good, especially in a "mini" truck. An old 90's full size Dodge Ram Cummins 5.9L pulls up next to me, rusty rockers and all, and nudges a few times to race, so away we go. He does not win or beat me, but I was pushing the pedal through the floor with 5800rpm shifts and I could not get him to appear in my rear view mirror. Neck and neck. We did this 3 times, once from a roll, all same result, I let up at 70mph each time. He had 3 people wide in his cab, I was alone. I asked what he had done and he said just lift pump, larger injectors, stiffer valve springs, governor spring kit, 1/2 turbo upgrade (hybrid), and turned up pump. That thing ran amazing. Lots of black smoke from a dead dig, but it cleared up once the turbo came on. I'm still in amazement that an old diesel engine of nearly same displacement ran a heavier truck and 3 guys at the same pace as my 300hp LS, in a vehicle 1000lbs lighter. His sounded great, no smoke or haze at idle, said he has a hard time keeping the auto transmission reliable. I bet. I think maybe some here have played with 5.9L's and have similar experience, Patracy has, if not others?

Point here, I think I am now shopping for a used "P" pump, such as what those engines came with (Bosch P7100). They are far more capable than the "MW" pumps we have, from what I understand. Fits and works on 8.3L, have to do something about an oil line change, but sounds easy. Some 8.3L's came with them, in non-MV apps. I think the marine 8.3L rated over 400hp used a Denso injection pump.

That's nothing new, I'd say be glad he wasn't in a newer truck or he would have made you look silly.

The 6.0 Ford could stomp a Corvette with nothing but a programmer on it. You had to launch it in 4x4 to get any traction. Ask me how I know. ...

Diesel engine performance has progressed by leaps and bounds in the last 15 years.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[dangood]

Newer Diesel engines definately have more power, but dealing with all the new emissions requirements and it's required particulate filters, Egr def systems, and $10k repair bills on high pressure fuel pumps when they get a little water in them and check engine lights that put you into limp mode or dead sure makes an old 90's Cummins 5.9 with the mechanical p-pump 7100 seem simple, affordable and relatively stress free with the cheap power it can make. They just run.

 

[74M35A2]

I'm picking up a used Bosch P7100 pump tomorrow with 12mm plungers in it, and the correct right hand rotation as required by Cummins. International DT466 is left hand rotation pump. Our Bosch MW pump is 10mm plungers and 10mm stroke. The 5.9L pump is 12mm diameter plungers and 11-14mm stroke (still studying). A P7100 12mm is known to fuel up to 600hp with changed fueling plates and delivery valves.

A P pump can easily be mis-identified for an MW or A pump. Also, there are different versions of the P pump. One a 3000 series and one a 7100 series. Various plunger diameters also.

A change may need to be made for pump oiling, one may oil through a port in the front cover, and the other via an external oiling line.

Cool, something else to sit in my stack of dreams to be added to the 9.

 

[74M35A2]

Well, I don't know what else to do to get you guys more excited. Once you have a P-7100 12mm pump, TST promises from over 300hp in EPA form, up to 525hp off-road. In reality, this is really not much more than standard non-military and marine power levels, respectively. But it goes to show the potential of the 12mm P/7100 injection pump. Yes, turning up our MW pumps will add power, but also smoke and higher EGT. The P pump gets more fuel in more quickly where it can make power, and minimize smoke and EGT.

http://www.dieselpowerproducts.com/p-9372-tst-power-kit-cummins-83-6cta.aspx

 

[tobyS]

74M35A2, That kit has the following disclaimer:

"These kits do not work on the ’97 and later 300 or higher horsepower mechanical engines or most military 8.3L applications."

If anyone with experience in fuel is coming by north Indiana, you can make a few bucks turning up my 931A2 and 929A2.

 

[74M35A2]

That is because the mil 8.3L is equipped with the Bosch MW pump, 10mm plungers and shorter stroke. Once swapped to a 12mm P7100 pump, then it holds true. Will find out more about required turbo and injectors to achieve this.

Let me know if you have an EGT gauge installed, or if you want that also, it is the only way to increase fueling safely. PM me you target budget to accomplish what you want, I will be in IN twice in the next month.

 

[nevrenufhp]

74M35A2, That kit has the following disclaimer:

"These kits do not work on the ’97 and later 300 or higher horsepower mechanical engines or most military 8.3L applications."

Because 97 and newer non-marine engines are electronic(ISC instead of 6CT). Higher than 300 are the marine engines usually, and they are already a really high power rating. And, 74M already explained the 5 ton's baby pump.

 

[grendel]

That's nothing new, I'd say be glad he wasn't in a newer truck or he would have made you look silly.

The 6.0 Ford could stomp a Corvette with nothing but a programmer on it. You had to launch it in 4x4 to get any traction. Ask me how I know. ...

Diesel engine performance has progressed by leaps and bounds in the last 15 years.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Any time you want to put your stock Ford with programmer up against a stock Vette, let me know .

 

[grendel]

See, this is where discoball and I split... even though I gave him the idea of a bigger pump, that I got from Neverenough.

The BoschMW is more than enough. Right now, my truck is too much fuel, with the new turbo, charge air cooler, etc.

Give it timing and it's plenty.

I have to remove fuel (smokes too much) and do all the right plumbing (still working on an air filter) and I'll start taking people for a drive. Yes, I have EGT and Boost gauges.

Stacks, too

 

[nevrenufhp]

See, this is where discoball and I split... even though I gave him the idea of a bigger pump, that I got from Neverenough.

The BoschMW is more than enough. Right now, my truck is too much fuel, with the new turbo, charge air cooler, etc.

Give it timing and it's plenty.

I have to remove fuel (smokes too much) and do all the right plumbing (still working on an air filter) and I'll start taking people for a drive. Yes, I have EGT and Boost gauges.

Stacks, too

I'd fly out there to go for a thrill ride.

 

[Ford Mechanic]

Any time you want to put your stock Ford with programmer up against a stock Vette, let me know .

Can't say I did or have owned a Powerchoke, I happened to be riding shotgun in a good friends truck that night. It was a 90's era corvette. I'm of the Cummins persuasion, and won't put a power adder like a programmer on truck I depend on. My brother had a 6.7 Cummins in a 3500 drw that we tweaked a little that was scary fast.

What year Corvette do you have?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[grendel]

I'd fly out there to go for a thrill ride.

Any time after next week

Can't say I did or have owned a Powerchoke, I happened to be riding shotgun in a good friends truck that night. It was a 90's era corvette. I'm of the Cummins persuasion, and won't put a power adder like a programmer on truck I depend on. My brother had a 6.7 Cummins in a 3500 drw that we tweaked a little that was scary fast.

What year Corvette do you have?

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Something wrong there... but to many variables to enumerate.

I have a few Vettes kicking around.

 

[Ford Mechanic]

Something wrong there... but to many variables to enumerate.

I have a few Vettes kicking around.

I tend to install parts for folks that have more $ than sense and get to watch while they tear it all up.

I just bought this for my wife 2005 Ram 3500 5.9L 48k miles!

we were checking to see what a 4in lift was going to look like. So in addition to the 4in lift it's getting traction bars, steering gear brace, 35 in BFG tires, spacers all around, bushwacker flares, cover king seat covers, and a complete LineX paint job. Parts are stacking up here and I'm disassembling the truck for the Linex, hoping to drop it off Saturday. Trying to be finished with here truck for the Denton rally.

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[74M35A2]

You didn't turn me onto the P pump.

Show me high output 5.9L's running a 10mm MW pump. Those guys pour gobs of $ into their engines, and none are using it.

The power-up comes from a 12mm P-7100 pump injecting more fuel, much sooner. A 10mm MW pump can be increased, but it will also greatly increase the duration of the inject, and therefore increase EGT and smoke. I'm not sure, but an MW pump may be limited to approximately 300hp. 12mm P-7100 pump are dyno'ing over 400hp at the wheel, and higher, especially once the delivery valves are changed to 191's or 024's.

It is a blast to watch different people try different things. Grendel is much more motivated than myself. I have a metal pile of dreams, he actually gets things done.

If you like your pump, you can keep your pump.