Some brake questions

[russojap]

I hope this isn't a redundant question, I've been going over some brake threads and am a little confused. I've been seeing Chinese made rubber parts won't last, bad springs, which I remember they have to have a certain shape, etc. Would someone mind telling me all on this thread where the best place to get new brake hoses and rebuild kits for the brake cylinders.Or all brake parts in general.

I think I have one or two brake cylinder kits left over from Saturn. I have 1 gallon of Dot 5 never opened from Saturn, but have emailed Iris Industries for a price. I intend to replace everything possible on the brakes. Why do they go down after sitting anyhow?

Also, is there any way to beef up the parking/ emergency brake so that it could stop the truck ?

I don't know where to buy anything because Saturn is closed, Where do you recommend?
I saw a hose set at Big Mike's for $132.00 how does that sound? Thank you

Edit: I read the good U S made rubber parts were available from NAPA but online they don't even have AM General listed as vehicle option.

 

[Katahdin]

Big Mikes is a good source.

I encountered a hard brake pedal a week ago as I was slowing down to an intersection, the parking brake stopped the truck. I now have that master cylinder apart and am awaiting a rebuild kit from Big Mike's.

 

[russojap]

Big Mikes is a good source.

I encountered a hard brake pedal a week ago as I was slowing down to an intersection, the parking brake stopped the truck. I now have that master cylinder apart and am awaiting a rebuild kit from Big Mike's.

Ok,thanks, I almost forgot the master cylinder. How fast were you going when you applied the parking brake? How fast did the truck stop? It's very hilly around here and I have to go over two very high ridges to get into town.


EDIT:
I was just reviewing the master cylinder removal procedure, doesn't sound like much fun, and also seems like it might be possible to create a problem where none exists.
I think I will bypass it for now. How common is it for the master cylinder to be responsible for brake failure in the M35? What is the most likely cause/ causes of brake failure?

 

[Katahdin]

I was in second gear and probably going 5mph, it stopped pretty quickly at that speed. The gearing was doing most of the slowing, I'm glad it wasn't a sudden stop or going down a hill.

I've been driving deuces occasionally for 8 years, this was the first time I've had a hard brake pedal, and on a truck I've only had for a year.

I had two more stops to get home, and the brake pedal was fine for those, but I geared down for those stops.

 

[Motorcar]

this was the first time I've had a hard brake pedal

This could be the an indicator of the air pack going bad.

 

[frank8003]

There is maybe 300 pages of answers to your questions.
Take a break and read about brakes

https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=partner-pub-4015606617893285:1751224275&ie=UTF-8&q=deuce+brakes&sa=Search&ref=www.steelsoldiers.com/search.php%3Fsearchid%3D6373081

 

[Katahdin]

This could be the an indicator of the air pack going bad.

I rebuilt that first, in July. I had to use a shop press to remove the piston out of the master cylinder, that ain't normal.

 

[tobyS]

"that ain't normal" .....nope.
On a recent thread I posted photo's of some wheel cylinders for the deuce that were part of a lot of 6 from Columbus GL. They were in Rockwell boxes and one has a number cast in and said Made in USA. It was odd and I began taking them apart.

I found 3 types of springs in them and US made seals, but not sure about the boots. Notice that one has straight compression spring with no end caps, two have the compression springs with end caps (3 parts for the spring unit) and two have a new style spring that has ends to fit the rubber cup, is one piece and therefor cheaper to produce, handle and for sure assemble, than the compression spring with end caps.

The inferior product is the spring only (first picture) with no end caps. In the case of my wheel cylinders, all have the wrong piston (see photo). The deuce requires a V or socket.

Until the A3, the deuce uses a 1 3/8" dia wheel cylinder front and rear. The A3 uses a 1 1/2" on the front.

I'm changing to a 4x4, so am putting 1 1/2 on the rear to balance them. I'm not to the MC yet and will be different from the A2 single circuit system. A3 has a 50/50 dual system.

The repair pack Raybestos 45 I got has the new spring and USA cups. I can't find pistons only to make mine complete ready to use on the (A2) deuce, but someone willing to clean their old piston could have near new wheel cylinders, painted and all (in classified but working on trade).

 

[russojap]

Let me ask a rather dumb question, is there any difference between complete surplus master cylinder assemblies and rebuild kits? Personally I would prefer the whole unit and I found one on EBay for $60.00. Is the age something to take into consideration? Maybe a tan one would be newer for example. The one for $60.00 sounds like a good deal to me considering that a rebuild kit is $40.00 from a well known vendor. They aren't reproducing these in China are they? Thanks

 

[SCSG-G4]

Let me ask a rather dumb question, is there any difference between complete surplus master cylinder assemblies and rebuild kits? Personally I would prefer the whole unit and I found one on EBay for $60.00. Is the age something to take into consideration? Maybe a tan one would be newer for example. The one for $60.00 sounds like a good deal to me considering that a rebuild kit is $40.00 from a well known vendor. They aren't reproducing these in China are they? Thanks

View attachment 740759View attachment 740760

Complete units would be the way I would go, then get the rebuild kit and fix the old one as a spare.

 

[porkysplace]

Ok,thanks, I almost forgot the master cylinder. How fast were you going when you applied the parking brake? How fast did the truck stop? It's very hilly around here and I have to go over two very high ridges to get into town.


EDIT:
I was just reviewing the master cylinder removal procedure, doesn't sound like much fun, and also seems like it might be possible to create a problem where none exists.
I think I will bypass it for now. How common is it for the master cylinder to be responsible for brake failure in the M35? What is the most likely cause/ causes of brake failure?

If your going to cut corners on the brake system because it looks like to much work for you , your probably better off selling it now .

 

[tobyS]

I thought I had 6 complete wheel cylinders from GL and after taking them apart, found issues. I know a NOS unit sounds like it's a ready to go unit (and the unit pictured does look nice), hopefully with seals that are not dried out from storage, but I'm not as trusting on brakes. So even if I bought the NOS unit I would disassemble, inspect , lube and reassemble....just for safety.

 

[russojap]

Porkysplace your absolutely right, if I don't get the brakes right nothing else on the truck matters.

TobyS , dry rot is exactly what I'm concerned about, maybe that's why that one is cheaper. I see Big Mike advertising NEW MANUFACTURED units, not NOS ones for $105.00 shipped.My truck already has an old one in it now, maybe I would be better off spending a few extra dollars for a new one on such a critical part. Even if it isn't brand new, the tan paint leads me to believe it would be newer than a green one. It would also be a lot easier to see when baccessing the master cylinder.

Is this one really tan or just green thats overexposed by a flash?
Do you think it's really new manufactured, in USA ?

Edit: I think I've figured this out, on his website the description says new master cylinder ( not rebuilt). So that more than likely means it's still NOS, just like any of the others, only with a higher price. Correct me if I'm wrong.

https://www.bigmikesmotorpool.com/c...ducts/master-cylinder-for-m35a1-m35a2-7539267

 

[rustystud]

Porkysplace your absolutely right, if I don't get the brakes right nothing else on the truck matters.

TobyS , dry rot is exactly what I'm concerned about, maybe that's why that one is cheaper. I see Big Mike advertising NEW MANUFACTURED units, not NOS ones for $105.00 shipped.My truck already has an old one in it now, maybe I would be better off spending a few extra dollars for a new one on such a critical part. Even if it isn't brand new, the tan paint leads me to believe it would be newer than a green one. It would also be a lot easier to see when baccessing the master cylinder.
View attachment 740794
Is this one really tan or just green thats overexposed by a flash?
Do you think it's really new manufactured, in USA ?

Edit: I think I've figured this out, on his website the description says new master cylinder ( not rebuilt). So that more than likely means it's still NOS, just like any of the others, only with a higher price. Correct me if I'm wrong.

https://www.bigmikesmotorpool.com/c...ducts/master-cylinder-for-m35a1-m35a2-7539267

Yep. It's still an older NOS unit, your just paying more for it. Do what Toby said and buy one and then take it all apart and check and lube it. It can have rust inside. That's the problem with NOS items. They could have been setting in a damp old warehouse for decades and now have internal rust. Seen this many times, especially with bearings.

 

[WillWagner]

Absolutely what Rusty and Toby said. I too have seen many "NOS" parts that were rusted but able to be brought back to serviceable and some that were no longer fit for reuse. Take ALL of these components apart and check them out and don't even try to cut corners on an A2's brake system. Not only that, it is not a fun thing to R&I a m/c in the deuce, it isn't something you will not want to do twice.

 

[tobyS]

Are you parked with the truck until it's repaired? Go ahead and take yours apart and see the condition of the components before you buy anything. I have to admit liking having a fully reconditioned and personally inspected NOS to go in it's place, but simply benching yours to re-seal seems a good option too.

 

[russojap]

Are you parked with the truck until it's repaired? Go ahead and take yours apart and see the condition of the components before you buy anything. I have to admit liking having a fully reconditioned and personally inspected NOS to go in it's place, but simply benching yours to re-seal seems a good option too.

The brakes have gone down for some reason and I haven't had a chance to look at anything yet, but did notice a leak on the inside rt.rear tire , so I guess it's another wheel cylinder . I was only going to do the master cylinder as a precautionary measure. I do intend to bleed the brakes and see what's going on. Rebuilt one wheel cylinder years ago but don't remember which one.

My plan is to replace every part of the brake system that involves hydraulics, lines and hoses etc.
But I don't want all that going on at the same time, so I can still drive it a little maybe or at least keep it somewhat mobile.

I will go ahead and try to take the MC out since that's where everything starts and it looks harder than doing a wheel cylinder.

Edit: Checked it out today, master cylinder was empty. Filled it up and bled brakes. Was able to move truck around and take it down driveway. It's fun when the steering wheel turns about 500 rpm returning to center. . Would have driven it more in the yard but it started raining and I didn't want to make ruts and then have to bounce over them when mowing.

I think the synchronizer may be bad because it grinds going into first gear.

 

[rustystud]

The brakes have gone down for some reason and I haven't had a chance to look at anything yet, but did notice a leak on the inside rt.rear tire , so I guess it's another wheel cylinder . I was only going to do the master cylinder as a precautionary measure. I do intend to bleed the brakes and see what's going on. Rebuilt one wheel cylinder years ago but don't remember which one.

My plan is to replace every part of the brake system that involves hydraulics, lines and hoses etc.
But I don't want all that going on at the same time, so I can still drive it a little maybe or at least keep it somewhat mobile.

I will go ahead and try to take the MC out since that's where everything starts and it looks harder than doing a wheel cylinder.

Edit: Checked it out today, master cylinder was empty. Filled it up and bled brakes. Was able to move truck around and take it down driveway. It's fun when the steering wheel turns about 500 rpm returning to center. . Would have driven it more in the yard but it started raining and I didn't want to make ruts and then have to bounce over them when mowing.

I think the synchronizer may be bad because it grinds going into first gear.

First gear has no synchro. It slides on the main shaft from first to reverse. You must be totally stopped to get it into first gear without grinding. Same for reverse.

 

[russojap]

First gear has no synchro. It slides on the main shaft from first to reverse. You must be totally stopped to get it into first gear without grinding. Same for reverse.

Ok thanks Rusty, it was stopped though, and the parking brake was even on. I think it may help if I shift to reverse first, but I'm not sure.

Another Edit: : I took it for a spin around the yard today, this time as long as I shift into first gear slowly it goes in without any drama, I can feel it bumping a little through the shifter, but can get it in first with little or no grinding, so I'm relieved about that. I also leave the throttle pulled out all the way and the truck fires right up and doesn't stall after revving the engine, it idles at 900 rpm this way.

On a side note I accidentally crushed the 6 ton jack stand that I was using for a chock and didn't even feel it.

 

[Menaces Nemesis]

Ok thanks Rusty, it was stopped though, and the parking brake was even on. I think it may help if I shift to reverse first, but I'm not sure.

Another Edit: : I took it for a spin around the yard today, this time as long as I shift into first gear slowly it goes in without any drama, I can feel it bumping a little through the shifter, but can get it in first with little or no grinding, so I'm relieved about that. I also leave the throttle pulled out all the way and the truck fires right up and doesn't stall after revving the engine, it idles at 900 rpm this way.

On a side note I accidentally crushed the 6 ton jack stand that I was using for a chock and didn't even feel it.

View attachment 740996

The trans needs for the internals to be disengaged from the engine, and their rotation stopped, in order to drift into 1st/rev gear without causing damage...
When you first push the clutch in, even though you've disengaged the engine from the trans, your stopped, and in neutral, at that moment, the input shaft, countershaft, and reverse shaft are all still spinning inside the trans, and winding down. You need to get used to holding the clutch in for a 5 or 6 second count, allowing the internals to come to a stop, before trying to slip it straight into reverse or 1st. Or, if you can get it into any other gear at a stop, it'll stop the internals spinning, then you can directly shift into 1st or reverse without grinding.

Being adept at driving a deuce around town means getting very savvy at timing stoplights and assessing slope, so you can time out that 5-6 seconds with the clutch in, right before the light turns green. Or, find another gear to stop the internals, right before the light turns, in order to shift into 1st. Or if you're nosing downhill a bit, you can let off the brake, let the truck start to coast forward with the clutch in, and slip it into 2nd instead of first. However, don't get used to starting off in second all the time, and it's not good to ride the clutch either (outside of that 5-6 second count to get it into 1st/rev).